Linux-Advocacy Digest #842, Volume #31 Tue, 30 Jan 01 07:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Whistler predictions... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: M$ websites down again - Problem solved -> use Linux! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: C2 (Shane Phelps)
Re: Linux headache ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Games? Who cares about games? ("Todd")
Re: Linux headache ("Edward Rosten")
Re: M$ websites down again - Problem solved -> use Linux! (Milton)
Re: M$ websites down again - Problem solved -> use Linux! (Milton)
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From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whistler predictions...
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 05:59:30 -0500
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> In article <9zud6.53251$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Christopher L. Estep wrote:
> >
> >"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:952j11$pml$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> No, reducing retraining costs is what 9x is all about.
> >>
> >And, to an extent, it was the reason for why NT 4 was designed the way it
> >was. The fact that NT 4 (and Windows 2000) use the Windows 9x UI was to
> >ELIMINATE (to a large extent) OS retraining costs. Which they have, in
> >spades. Case in point: Comcast Cable Communications is the third largest
> >cable company in North America, and is practically a floor-to-ceiling
> >NT/2000 shop. Almost the entirety of the user base normally uses Windows 9x
> >away from the office. How much OS retraining has Comcast had to do? Answer:
> >NONE. The Customer Account Executives have "roaming profiles" that can
> >follow them all over the company, all over the country. When do they know
> >that they are NOT running 9x? When an application crashes, and they need
> >merely restart the offending application, rather than the whole OS. Two of
> >the more crash-prone applications run against a rather persnickety Oracle
> >database. When it crashes, the user merely restarts the app, rather than
> >reboot the whole OS, as they would have to under 9x. My own NT desktop has
> >rebooted a grand total of TWICE in three months (and one of those was due to
> >an application upgrade). Number of blue screens I have had: zero. Number
> >of application crashes: numerous (almost all in those applications running
> >against Oracle). Number of "forced reboots" due to an application crash:
> >ONE (and even that was due to Netscape Navigator slowing to a crawl, as
> >opposed to an outright crash). Even then, it didn't bluescreen; I rebooted
> >to "flush" both disk and memory caches in Netscape.
> >
> >THAT is reliability.
> >
> >Something NT users prove, day in and day out.
> >
> >Christopher L. Estep
> >
>
> 85% of the worlds databases run on Oracle.
> Oracle spans not only the Microsoft world but most of the mainframe
> world. Oracle has *PROVEN* experience. It's unquestionable.
>
> I found this message quite cute.
>
> How can a major database which runs across every kind of Mainframe
> made, with the best track record of them all, be to blame for
> your silly-ass problem with Windows???
>
> Indeed, writing applications using Windows API is the problem.
> It was never with Oracle.
>
> And in the same breath the author mentions having trouble with
> Netscape. We already know from court records that Microsoft
> rigged all the API's and utilites Netscape ever used to make
> their company look bad.
>
> Truely the ONLY thing which runs well on a Microsoft OS is
> indeed a Microsoft application. Doesn't that seem a little
> fucking strange to you Christopher?
>
> If you were to go into a REAL DATA CENTER and suggest that
> Oracle be UNPLUGGED because you had trouble with your
> Windows Application, they would laugh your butt right out
> of the building. Oracle is the most highly tested,
> high power database in the world today. It dominates the
> mainframe world.
>
> You mentioned your Oracle Database crashed? Do you know
> what table damage is? Or are you just saying your API
> crapped.
>
> Out of the billions of bytes of information our Oracle
> Database processes every day, I've never see it crash
> on our mainframe. Not one time.
>
> It's been working for the company for *YEARS* flawlessly.
>
> Oracle has a tremendous track record with people who
> process billions of records a day.
>
> And I can ask my user base, when is the last time
> they saw Oracle fail. The answer would be never.
Same here....I've NEVER heard of Oracle crashing on either UNIX
or a mainframe.
>
> Yet, I can ask anyone of them about the last experience
> they had seeing Windows crash using Internet Explorer
> or Outlook Express and they give me their stories.
>
> I believe your stupid enough to believe Oracle is
> *YOUR* problem. That's what's funny.
>
> You don't know your head from your ass on anything.
> And that's how Windows leaves people.
>
> Charlie
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: M$ websites down again - Problem solved -> use Linux!
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:02:23 -0500
Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > You have the benefit of hindsight. Knowing it was a router problem. To
> > get
> > to that stage, you have to go through a lot of diagnosis. They probably
> > initially concentrated on the DNS servers. Whatever the problem, it's not
> > as black and white as you pretend it is.
> >
> Still defending MacroShit for this, Erik?
> No, this is not believable. I think that a bunch of MCSE's tried
> frantically to somehow map the problem to the bullshit in their
> study-books. As this did not work, they started to change settings, reboot
> (naturally) and try further, naturally without undoing the changes, thereby
> creating havoc with the setup until they had to reinstall (until now normal
> problem finding routine on Wintendo(tm) and quite usual). As this did not
> work, hours later, MS started to haul in some people who accually have
> a basic knowledge how networks work (probably those who wrote the
> MCSE study-bullshit.)
The following is a PERFECT summarization of all things Microsoft:
> Admit it, the whole setup of those DNS was unbelievable dumb and worth an
> entry in study-books how NOT TO DO IT under any circumstances (and
> therefore standard microsoft procedure)
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: C2
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:11:52 +1100
Conrad Rutherford wrote:
>
> I'll always admit when I'm wrong - why not?
>
Advocacy NGs seem to get a bit heated and personal, so
people are less inclined to admit they were wrong in such
situations.
If you're prepared to admit you don't know everything
(or admit what you thought you knew was wrong) when shown
otherwise you'll actually *learn* something amongst the flames.
I'd rather admit I'm wrong and learn something than "prove"
I'm right and remain ignorant.
I shouldn't have a nice cold beer when I'm reading c.o.*.a,
it makes me too mellow :-)
> "Shane Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> > Jan Johanson wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you Shane for being a better person than the rest...
> > >
> >
> > Probably not a better person. Just more prepared to admit I'm wrong
> >
> > > "Shane Phelps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > I've skimmed the document Conrad referred to.
> > > > I accept his assertion that C2 applies to the OS only
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux headache
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:15:09 +0000
>> > Bye the way, has anyone who isn't a beardy geek (no insult intended)
>> > actually successfully re-compiled their kernel and got exactly the
>> > result they were looking for ???
>>
>> Sure, it's easy!
My patients with people like you is running out. Nothing requires you to
recompile a Kernel. Just get the latest kernel package from your distro.
>> 1. First, you download about 13 MBs of compressed source
>> code.
>> 2. Then you have to set about two hundred or so obscure parameters
>> to create an appropriate make file. You'll probably make the false
>> assumption the first time through that the defaults are appropriate.
Things like: Enable support for sound (really obscure)
>> (Like the default: kernel hacking)
>> 3. Then you build.
>> 4. Then install the new kernel and rerun lilo.
>> 5. Then reboot and get a kernel panic.
That's a plain lie.
>> 6. Then you go to another computer and post a desperate help message
>> in the newsgroups.
Reboot with your old kernel or a bootdisk
>> 7. A day or so later, you'll get your computer to boot again.
>> 8. You go through the two hundred or so parameters more carefully,
>> trying to figure out which ones were wrong.
>> ...
>> Trust me. After a few days, it finally will work.
You're a fool. I'm not going to trust you because you are a liar. Mine
worked first time.
>> By the way, all kidding aside, asking the end user to do bizarre
>> things like recompile the kernel,
No, one does, fool.
>> is one of many, many reasons why
>> Linux is not appropriate for the end user. It reflects fundamental
>> design flaws in Linux that need to be overcome before the system can
>> compete with more technically advanced systems like Windows.
<responding the the previous message>
>
> All of this must be why UNIX is the STANDARD desktop for every
> automotive designer in the world...all the way from the manufacturers
> (GM, FORD, BMW, VW, TOYOTA, ROLLS ROYCE, etc.) all the way down to the
> most insignificant tier-3 parts supplier.
>
>
>
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Games? Who cares about games?
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:16:50 +0800
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I don't know anyone that really plays games on their computers. is that
out of
> the ordinary? When people mention games as an issue, I often wonder why.
Because many people like playing games on their computers...
> I have a Nintendo for games, why would I waste a computer on games?
Because console games suck compared to PC (win32) games, IMO.
The standard TV or even HDTV is just not as good for resolution as a
computer monitor.
IOW, Quake at 1280x1024 *smokes* anything on a console.
Games like Allegiance and Age of Empires *rocks*... and you can't find
*anything* close on a console... nor on Linux.
-Todd
> --
> http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux headache
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:22:38 +0000
> I'm astonished. Speechless, even. You think compilers are easy, but UIs
> are hard. On the contrary compilers are without a doubt the most
> demanding programming projects, and Richard Stallman and his team have
> demonstrated a rare genius with gcc. It is arguably the hackers most
> used tool and it hard to imagine it being anything other than extremely
> high quality and I would for one would never consider using anything
> else. I'd certainly never go back to Sun's compiler.
A point here. GCC seems to be missing a feature avaliable on Digital's
(very pedantic) compiler, which is useful. The feature tells you if the
result of an action is undefined.
A lack of warning cased a program to work fine under GCC but seg under
SGI's compiler.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold|Edward Rosten
weather is because of all the fish in the atmosphere? |u98ejr
- The Hackenthorpe Book of lies |@
|eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: Milton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: M$ websites down again - Problem solved -> use Linux!
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:34:58 -0500
On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:45:02 -0600, "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>"CR Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >This is even worse for them than the original event. They now have to
>> >admit they can't run a big network and switch to people running Linux!
>>
>> The DNS service in Active Directory, has now proven itself to be
>> severely flawed.
>>
>>
>http://www.lucent-netcare.com/knowledge/whitepapers/win_2k_dns_integration.a
>sp
>>
>> "It is important to note that Microsoft's implementation of secure DNS
>> update does not interoperate with DNS servers that support RFC 2137,
>> so currently there is no mechanism to enforce secure DNS updates
>> between Windows 2000 systems and a BIND DNS server.
>>
>> Note: BIND is what everyone but M$ uses.
>
>Note: The article is well over a year old. RFC 2137 is obsolete, and is
>replaced by RFC 3007
And? WTF does that have to do with M$ amd secure dynamic updates?
It doesn't support RFC 3007, with is hardly suprising since it was only
submited in November, 2000
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3007.txt?number=3007
The list of W2K supported RFCs can be found here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/library/resources/reskit/samplechapters/cncc/cncc_dns_ymfy.asp
>Also note that this talks about SECURE updates.
What other kind would you trust?
>Also, I believe that BIND
>has been updated to adress these problems quite some time ago.
There is nothing wrong with BIND.
The problem is W2K and it's Active Directory implementation of DNS.
>> "It is also important to recognize that Windows 2000 DNS only provides
>> secure updates when the DNS zones are configured as Active Directory
>> Integrated zones. If a Windows 2000 DNS server contains zones that are
>> configured as Standard Primary zones, *no security is provided.*
>>
>> The lack of secure updates between Windows 2000 and BIND will likely
>> cause problems for a number of organizations. We'll discuss some
>> options for these organizations in a section below entitled "DNS
>> Implementation Strategies."
>
>DNS secure updates weren't added to BIND until version 9, which came out
>last year I believe.
>> Apparently, these problems bit M$ in the ass.
>
>Yes, MS was actually implementing these standards before BIND did. That was
>the problem.
That's amazing since BIND has been around long before W2K and Active
Directory even existed.
>> Also
>> NET is built on the premise of %100 reliability of Active Directory and
>> it's implementation of DNS, therefore .NET is DOA.
>
>You don't know what you're talking about. .NET is not built on DNS or
>ActiveDirectory at all.
It is built on W2K which incorperates the DNS services of Active
Directory.
> Most of what .NET is, doesn't even involve the network.
Do you realise how stupid that comment is?
If the network (aka the internet or intranet) is down or inaccesable
.NET is basically worthless.
--
«««««««««««««««««««««««»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
Milton B. Hewitt
CAUCE Member - http://www.cauce.org
Proud supporter of the Microsoft Boycott Campaign
http://www.vcnet.com/bms/
«««««««««««««««««««««««»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
------------------------------
From: Milton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: M$ websites down again - Problem solved -> use Linux!
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:43:20 -0500
On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:20:50 GMT, CR Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>i just quoted the article.
I know.
My apologies for making it seem that you saying something different.
I didn't realise at the time of the original posting that Akamai mainly
used Linux for it's servers.
>The reporter seemed reluctant to admit that Linux saved MS.
The latest news is that M$ has outsourced all of it's DNS services to
Akamai
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2679917,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews01
--
«««««««««««««««««««««««»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
Milton B. Hewitt
CAUCE Member - http://www.cauce.org
Proud supporter of the Microsoft Boycott Campaign
http://www.vcnet.com/bms/
«««««««««««««««««««««««»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
------------------------------
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