Linux-Advocacy Digest #414, Volume #34 Fri, 11 May 01 04:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux has one chance left......... (GreyCloud)
Re: Linux has one chance left......... (GreyCloud)
Re: Linux has one chance left......... (GreyCloud)
Re: How to hack with a crash, another Microsoft "feature" (GreyCloud)
Re: How to hack with a crash, another Microsoft "feature" (GreyCloud)
Re: Windos is *unfriendly* (GreyCloud)
Re: Windos is *unfriendly* (GreyCloud)
Re: Windos is *unfriendly* (GreyCloud)
Re: Microsoft's move away from perpetual licensing proves that the closed source
model doesn't work! (Flacco)
Re: Just how commercially viable is OSS?... (Was Re: Interesting MS (GreyCloud)
Re: Alan Cox responds to Mundie (GreyCloud)
Re: Caldera CEO agrees with MS ("Mikkel Elmholdt")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux has one chance left.........
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 00:45:13 -0700
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, T. Max Devlin
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Thu, 10 May 2001 16:21:31 GMT
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed, 09 May 2001
> >>On Wed, 09 May 2001 14:58:17 GMT, T. Max Devlin
> >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Said Pete Goodwin in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue, 08 May 2001 20:32:22
> >>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> So in other words you don't know what you are talking about and have
> >>>>> no facts to back up your foolish statement?
> >>>>
> >>>>That appears to be the size of it.
> >>>
> >>>And here V had the naivete to say you weren't a troll, Pete. You should
> >>>feel stupid.
> >>
> >>Why should Pete feel stupid?
> >>You made a statement that you can't back up because you haven't a clue
> >>concerning Direct-x.
> >
> >I use it. It sucks. 'Nuf said.
>
> Perhaps you can clarify this statement. One does not use DirectX
> directly, as it is an API/library; instead, one plays a game or
> uses a sophisticated 2-D or 3-D rendering system which requires
> Direct X. I assume, for the sake of this argument, that Direct3D
> is built on top of DirectX. You'll see why in a moment.
>
> I play Unreal (it's one of my many faults :-) ) and have noticed that,
> at least on my machine, that OpenGL is slightly buggy but
> looks gorgeous, and Direct3D, while bug-free for the most part,
> makes me think of looking through a screen door because of its
> dithering method. As always, non-accelerated software rendering
> looks like crap, but is usable.
>
> For what it's worth.
>
> [.sigsnip]
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> EAC code #191 10d:01h:40m actually running Linux.
> I don't hate Microsoft. Just their products.
A good criticism.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux has one chance left.........
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 00:46:50 -0700
Terry Porter wrote:
>
> On Thu, 10 May 2001 23:33:45 GMT,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Thu, 10 May 2001 23:03:47 GMT, T. Max Devlin
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>That's a very incisive point, Terry. I can't wait to see flatfish flop
> >>around in the bottom of the boat, now that his favorite gambit has been
> >>nullified so completely.
> >
> > While Terry and I disagree on 95 percent of what we discuss, he at
> > least backs up his claims with facts.
>
> Well I try to, tho my Wife who is doing an english literature degree,
> tells me I should always name references at the end of the articles I
> write!
>
Your wife is very correct! The intelligence community always works with
graded references.
Without references, it is just worthless dribble.
> >
> > You on the other hand.......
>
> Max is an excellent debater, I've admired his posts for years
> so nyah, nyah!
>
> >
> >
> > flatfish
>
> --
> Kind Regards
> Terry
> --
> **** ****
> My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
> 1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
> Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
> Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
> ** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux has one chance left.........
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 00:49:16 -0700
Terry Porter wrote:
>
> On Thu, 10 May 2001 18:35:52 +0100,
> Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> >
> >> I use it. It sucks. 'Nuf said.
> >
> > Linux. I use it. It sucks. 'nuf said.
>
> All operating systems suck, but for me,
> *Linux sucks the least*.
>
> --
> Kind Regards
> Terry
> --
> **** ****
> My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
> 1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
> Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
> Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
> ** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
(Now if I could only convince you to spend $75 on Solaris 8...)
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How to hack with a crash, another Microsoft "feature"
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 00:53:37 -0700
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "Chronos Tachyon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> message news:eTFK6.1050$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Thu 10 May 2001 03:19, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > [Snip]
> > > on-time pads are theoretically uncrackable, but practically they are
> since
> > > they tend to be created using computer generated numbers, and are thus
> > > predictable. In essance, my algorithm is a one-time pad, but with a
> > > method of calculating the pad that isn't predictable unless you know how
> > > it's calculated.
> >
> > This is incorrect. A true one-time-pad would be generated by reading a
> > naturally random source of noise that an attacker would have great
> > difficulty introducing patterns into. A good example would be the timing
> > between decays in a sample of a radioactive isotope.
>
> Which is something an average person can get access to, how?
>
> Apart from the fact that this decay is debated hotly (no pun intended) about
> whether it is random or not, One-time pads created on PC's without access to
> such generator are going to be predictable at some level.
Well, Eric, I have to admit.... you are the only one I can believe in
these things.
A good point indeed. I believe you do have a bent for the scientific.
Don't we all??
A radioactive isotope is not hard to come by tho... and neither is the
equipment to do analysis... money is the stopping point and so are
bills.
Final question: Do you work for MicroSoft??
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How to hack with a crash, another Microsoft "feature"
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 00:55:32 -0700
Chronos Tachyon wrote:
>
> On Thu 10 May 2001 07:09, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> > "Chronos Tachyon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> > message news:eTFK6.1050$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On Thu 10 May 2001 03:19, Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >>
> >> [Snip]
> >> > on-time pads are theoretically uncrackable, but practically they are
> > since
> >> > they tend to be created using computer generated numbers, and are thus
> >> > predictable. In essance, my algorithm is a one-time pad, but with a
> >> > method of calculating the pad that isn't predictable unless you know
> >> > how it's calculated.
> >>
> >> This is incorrect. A true one-time-pad would be generated by reading a
> >> naturally random source of noise that an attacker would have great
> >> difficulty introducing patterns into. A good example would be the timing
> >> between decays in a sample of a radioactive isotope.
> >
> > Which is something an average person can get access to, how?
> >
> > Apart from the fact that this decay is debated hotly (no pun intended)
> > about whether it is random or not, One-time pads created on PC's without
> > access to such generator are going to be predictable at some level.
> >
>
> There are PCI cards and serial port devices that do this sort of thing, not
> to mention that the Intel i810 chipset comes with a builtin true RNG that
> Linux natively supports to seed /dev/random. This sort of thing will
> become very common over the next few years, I imagine. Most
> consumer-oriented RNG hardware uses thermal noise, which is good enough for
> all but the most paranoid (an attacker might be able to convince your
> computer to use more electricity to process inbound packets, for instance,
> and introduce patterns to the noise, but this is pretty outlandish even for
> Jane Q Cypherpunk).
>
> BTW, radioactive decay and thermal noise ARE both truly random phenomena
> according to Quantum Mechanics. Because scientists have been able to build
> very basic quantum computers, we can be reasonably certain that the
> Copenhagen Interpretation of QM is correct, and thus there are no hidden
> variables (i.e. radioactive isotopes don't have an internal "alarm clock"
> that determines when they decay, each one just has a small but finite
> probability per Planck Time of randomly decaying).
>
> --
> Chronos Tachyon
> Guardian of Eristic Paraphernalia
> Gatekeeper of the Region of Thud
> [Reply instructions: My real domain is "echo <address> | cut -d. -f6,7"]
A simple noisy carbon resistor can be used to provide a random noise
source to provide a random number generator.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windos is *unfriendly*
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 00:57:30 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Thu, 10 May 2001 01:09:16 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >This is why there is a job known as the "release engineer", who
> >checks everything out so that the terminally stupid and their ideas
> >can't contaminate a project.
>
> Ahhh but what if, God help us all, my neighbor (we call him Pyle BTW)
> has the esteemed position of "release engineer"?
>
> I can see the engines falling off the bird now :(
>
> Flatfish
I'm taking the train!
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windos is *unfriendly*
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 00:59:07 -0700
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> > And desirable things doable out-of-the-box.
>
> Still pretty hard...
>
> > Linux allows my private system to act as a proxy web server, ssh login
> > server, mail server, newsserver, etc., all accessed via ssh tunneling
> > from my work system through the only port not blocked and/or heavily
> > filtered and monitored. Linux also allows me to use my private linux
> > system to act as a NAT and firewall box to other systems on my private
> > LAN. I can direct all my GUI displays to forward through ssh to my work
> > system, all through an encrypted channel. I can browse the web from
> > work using my private linux system as a proxy web server with all web
> > traffic between the internet and my work system encrypted and going
> > over the ssh port. I can login via ssh to my private system from work
> > and send and receive mail, read and post to USENET, ftp to anywhere on
> > the internet, edit files, run GUI apps, etc. etc.
>
> Great. Maybe you can tell me how to make my system work with DHCP and
> IPchains without stamping on the NIC drivers.
>
> > This is all done with software that comes out-of-the-box on my linux
> > distro. This is all IMPOSSIBLE on Windows without purchasing a LOT
> > of extra software after you've installed Windows 2000, or Windows ME,
> > or Windows 98, or Windows 98 SE, or Windows NT 4, ......or even
> > the beta version of Windows XP and some of it is just not on Windows
> > at all.
>
> I'm not likely to try what you've done so I couldn't really comment on
> wether it's really "impossible" without "purchasing a lot of extra
> software". Especially since some if it is already free or already on
> Windows.
>
> --
> ---
> Pete Goodwin
> All your no fly zone are belong to us
> My opinions are my own
I would help you in the DHCP stuff... but I'm still awaiting on Paul
Allen to cough up with the services here!
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windos is *unfriendly*
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 01:01:42 -0700
Terry Porter wrote:
>
> On Tue, 08 May 2001 20:23:49 GMT,
> Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Terry Porter wrote:
> >
> >> I did networking for about 3 years and had nothing but trouble with
> >> Windows, so I did find Windows difficult to network.
> >
> > I worked for a networking group producing routers for a couple of years.
> > Never had too many problems configuring Windows. Lots of fun configuring
> > routers.
>
> It's interesting how experiences differ. I usedtoinstall Cisco
> and ComputerProtocol routers, and never had much trouble there.
>
> Windos was always a fight,between the apps running, and the neccessary
> tsr's to support networking(Banyan Vines).
>
> >
> >> I think that the complexity is less of an issue than the way that
> >> Windows forces one to impliment it.
> >
> > It has IP address, mask, gateway, DNS etc. What else do you need?
>
> An easier way to set them up.
>
> >
> >> Its further influenced byt the fine control over all aspects
> >> of networking that Linux gives me, unlike Windows where if
> >> the GUI doesnt have the fine control, I'm stuck.
> >
> > ... what else do you need?
>
> See above.
>
> >
> >> About 3 months ago, I put my Wifes Windows98 pc on our network
> >> and found the whole install a pain in the butt.
> >
> > I put together a simple network at home with Windows with apparent ease.
> > Enter Linux and things got complex.
>
> Hahaha exactly the REVERSE of my experiences.
>
> >
> >> Numerous reboots, it failed to detect the NE2000 isa card, and
> >> I had to enter the parameters by hand. At least Windows95 found
> >> them in the past.
> >
> > I've had no problems with the two PCI cards with Windows but lots of fun
> > with Linux.
>
> As above,for some reason.
>
> >
> >> It may just be me, I think I've become spoilt by Linux ?
> >
> > There are two ways I could take that... 8*}
>
> Yeah, heheh.
>
> >
> > --
> > Pete
> >
>
> --
> Kind Regards
> Terry
> --
> **** ****
> My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
> 1972 Kawa Mach3, 1974 Kawa Z1B, .. 15 more road bikes..
> Current Ride ... a 94 Blade
> Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
> ** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
Did someone mention Banyon Vines?? Puget Sound Naval Shipyard wanted
Novell for a networking agent.... someone in NAVSEA said no! That
idiot!
--
V
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 02:22:10 -0400
From: Flacco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft's move away from perpetual licensing proves that the closed
source model doesn't work!
> Even British Columbia is making cooing
> sounds to Gates to move Microsoft up there if the DOJ gets its ways.
But, gee, wouldn't that be "unamerican?"
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just how commercially viable is OSS?... (Was Re: Interesting MS
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 01:02:50 -0700
"Marada C. Shradrakaii" wrote:
>
> > And eventually, commercial all GNU/Linux distributors
> >will fail... miserably. And GNU/Linux will simply remain as a free product.
>
> I would add two caveats to that claim. First, if you have other revenue
> sources, you might do better. IBM or HP will still be selling machines, even
> if they can't move an O/S at a profit. If their business is not diversified
> into service contracts, custom development, prepacked systems with hardware or
> closed-source software, or cuddly penguin toys, they may be able to survive in
> extremely minimal forms as almost 'charity cases'. I'm thinking along the
> lines of street performers-- you're not charged for what you get, but you pay
> to reward those who have provided you with a service you enjoy.
> --
> Marada Coeurfuege Shra'drakaii
> Colony name not needed in address.
Very well said!!
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Alan Cox responds to Mundie
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 01:07:09 -0700
Ketil Z Malde wrote:
>
> Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >> Yes, they'd rather *use* BSD code. But I'm talking about *releasing*
> >> it - i.e. contributing back.
>
> > Apple *has* contributed back plenty.
>
> Yes, I know. Hey, they've contributed to Linux too - at least the
> mkLinux project springs to mind. ISTR Sun and other users of BSD code
> to also contribute back.
>
> > They have done a lot of work on Darwin, and if the BSD teams want to
> > grab some code they are more than welcome to do so.
>
> The difference is that contributing back to BSD-licensed software
> depends on the good will and generosity of the company that uses this
> software. With GPL, its no longer voluntary - if you ship, you have
> to share.
Tell that to Cygnus. I spent $150 for GNU Pro Tool kit and very little
was mentioned of the GPL. No source, just a copyright notice.
>
> I can easily imagine otherwise generous companies restricting
> redistributions of important, ground-breaking stuff or say, device
> drivers that would reveal hardware interfaces - while continuing to
> submit bug fixes and so on.
>
> This might lead to BSD code "winning out" in the end - but the end
> users lose, information about that device might be crucial for
> somebody somewhere.
>
> >> Of course, there are lots of allegations about companies using GPLed
> >> products without coming up with the code, so the issue may be a bit
> >> hypothetical.
>
> > Difficult to prove -- so much so that it's usually a waste of time to
> > discuss it.
>
> Exactly. So the difference, with quite a few "generous" BSD users,
> and some uncooperating GPL defectors around, might be mostly
> hypothetical.
>
> -kzm
> --
> If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
--
V
------------------------------
From: "Mikkel Elmholdt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Caldera CEO agrees with MS
Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:09:58 +0200
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9dfk42$gkq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:9des3m$6pi$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2717264,00.html
> >>
> >> > Ransom Love (his real name, ISYN) says he agrees with MS that the GPL
is
> > not
> >> > appropriate for Commerical software, and is considering alternate
> > licenses
> >> > such as the BSDL.
> >>
> >> Yes. The GPL makes it too hard for lazy corporate fatcats to get even
> > fatter.
> >>
> >> LETS GET RID OF IT!!!
>
> > I love it. As soon as Caldera starts to question the GPL, suddenly
they're
> > a lazy corporate fatcat.
>
> Actually, funkybreath, if youd been paying attention at all, you would
> realize that I always thought that caldera was full of lazy corporate
> fatcats, as is mandrake, redhat, and a handful of other distribution
houses.
Excuse me for asking, but are there actually any commercial Linux-based
companies (distros or other business) that you approve of?
Mikkel
------------------------------
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