Antonio,
thanks very much for setting us straight with your informative mail. What
I'd like to know, is why Milan/Valencian/Spanish tablature, only got famous
and completely took over the plucked string theatre in the mid-1900's? Do
modern people have a preference for numbers as opposed to letters? And as a
follow-up question, do lutenists have an old fashioned mindset for prefering
French tab, or is it just dandy, and a little mystical to be able to read
French tab? (Personally, I consider them both almost equally easy to flow
from the paper to the fingers, whereas i still find Italian tab more awkward
due to the mirror effect, but that must surely only be a question of
practice, (although I've played Italian since the mid 80's).
And finally, after all these years, (thanks to Jobin's concise typography),
I've managed to escalate German tab. Still have to learn "cifra nueva".
Poulton's excellent tutor is BTW a very good guide to the different systems,
although I understand that Damiani's is considered to be the best lute-tutor
today. (Haven't seen it yet).
Best regards
Göran
----- Original Message -----
From: "Antonio Corona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Stewart McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: 15. desember 2003 08:29
Subject: Re: Names of composers (Was: Vihuela)
| Dear Stewart and friends,
|
| I believe we should not dismiss the possibility that
| Milan`s system of tablature might have been an
| offshoot of Neapolitan tab. There were strong ties
| between the Aragonese and Valencian courts and Naples
| which was also a Spanish possession. Besides, an
| interesting piece in this jigsaw is the snippet of
| tablature found written in the flyleaf of the
| _Epistolariun familiarum_ by Lucio Marineo Siculo,
| published at Valencia in 1514, now in the British
| Library in a unique system, where, again, the upper
| line indicates the first string and the "0" is used
| for the first string. The Valencian connection is - I
| believe -significative. Bearing this in mind, and
| despite all the differences between the Marineo Siculo
| fragment and Milan's tab, a case might be made for
| calling tablature with the upper line for the first
| string and "0" for the open string "Valencian".
| (For those interested in having a look at this source,
| see _Early Music_, vol. xx, no. 4, November 1992, pp.
| 594-600. A photograph of the piece appears in p. 594.)
|
| On other subjects, sorry Göran, but Milan never signed
| his name as Luis (or Luys) de Milan, but simply as
| Luys Milan (no "de" there to suggest a Milanese
| provenance). On the other hand, he did not speak
| Italian either. The only concordance between
| Castiglione's book and that by Milan is the name. The
| former (which was published in a Spanish translation
| by Juan Boscan at Barcelona in 1534) deals with the
| appropriate attitudes, behaviour etc. of a gentleman;
| the latter (Valencia, 1562) describes Milan's life and
| adventures at the Valencian court of Germaine de Foix.
| Milan tended to be quite vain, and it shows clearly
| both in this book as well as in the woodcut of _El
| Maestro_, where he equates himself with Orpheus.
| Incidentally, among the accomplishments Milan was
| proud of was that of being poet, and this is one of
| the reasons why Juan Fernandez criticized him in the
| source you mention ("Coplas de Juan Fernandez..."),
| This collection of poetry was also published at
| Valencia, in 1562 (_Las Obras de don Ioan Fernandez de
| Heredia assi temporales, como espirituales dirigidas
| al ilustrissimo seńor don Francisco de Aragon_). Here,
| again, Milan never appears as Luis de Milan. As an
| example, there is a the poem called "Don Joan
| Fernandez a Don Luys Milan"; or later on it is
| mentioned that: "Don Luys Milan embio vn colloquio muy
| largo a don Ioan Fernandez". Fernandez is rather harsh
| in his judgement of Milan as a poet, but in this same
| poem he admits that he can play well:
|
| Si la vihuela oluidays,
| y trobays y componeys,
| tomays lo que no sabeys
| y lo que sabeys dejais (...)
|
| (If forget the vihuela
| and write and compose verses
| you take what you don't know
| And leave aside waht you know ...)
|
| With best wishes,
| Antonio
|
| --- Stewart McCoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| escribió: > Dear Göran,
| >
| > You refer to Milan's tablature as Neapolitan. There
| > seems to be some
| > confusion about this, if only in my own mind.
| >
| > Milan's tablature for vihuela has open strings
| > notated as 0. A chord
| > of F major (assuming G tuning) would look like
| >
| > =2=
| > =3=
| > =3=
| > =0=
| > ===
| > ===
| >
| > Milano's tablature for viola has open strings
| > notated as 1. A chord
| > of F major (assuming G tuning) would look like
| >
| > =3=
| > =4=
| > =4=
| > =1=
| > ===
| > ===
| >
| > Milano's tablature is called Neapolitan tablature,
| > but should we
| > call Milan's tablature Neapolitan too? I remember
| > discussing this
| > point with June Yaxley at a meeting of the Lute
| > Society in London,
| > not long before she died. She maintained that both
| > tablatures should
| > be called Neapolitan. I have always thought that
| > Milano's viola
| > tablature should be called Neapolitan, and Milan's
| > tablature
| > Spanish. More observant Lutenetters might have
| > noticed how careful I
| > was to side-step this issue in my message of 12th
| > December
| > ("Vihuela").
| >
| > Certainly it would be convenient to use different
| > words for
| > different systems. I would be interested to know
| > what you and others
| > think.
| >
| > Best wishes,
| >
| > Stewart.
| >
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > From: "G.R. Crona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 10:54 AM
| > Subject: Re: Names of composers (Was: Vihuela)
| >
| >
| > Dear Arthur,
| >
| > when reading the postings of this thread, it
| > suddenly struck me:
| > Luís de
| > Milán... Luigi da Milano. Was he actually an
| > Italian? Or did he get
| > his
| > epithet from having spent part of his life in
| > Milano? In those days,
| > surnames often indicated provenance. His music was
| > quite italianate
| > and his
| > book "El cortesano", (1561) was apparently based on
| > Castiglione so
| > he
| > probably spoke Italian. I gather, that not much of
| > his earlier life
| > is
| > known, so hypothetically he could have been an
| > expatriate Italian,
| > seeking
| > his fortune in Spain. Also his unique (and in my
| > view superior) use
| > of
| > Neapolitan TAB.
| >
| > Funny how threads on this list suddenly trigger a
| > new question!
| >
| > Best Regards
| >
| > Göran
| >
| >
| >
|
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