Have you looked at the Principes de musique of Monteclair, because
that I think is one of the most important sources for ornamentation
practice, and then the airs avec doubles of Lambert for the brouderie
style you can feather in.
dt
the 17th centurtyairs avec doubles of Lambert At 02:16 AM 1/28/2009,
you wrote:
"David Tayler" <vidan...@sbcglobal.net> schrieb:
> Without wishing to go too far down this path, modern performance
> practice does not really reflect the historical sources for trills
> and other ornamnents. The appogiatura was as long or longer than
the
> main note, and they had 23 or so "basic" types of agreements,
Didn't know the exact number (or is that an estimated number like
3.785?), thanks! I know ornament tables by Rameau or Couperin, but
would
you say that applied, say, a hundred years earlier, too, like with
Mesangeau, Gaultier, Bocquet?
> As opposed to 30 years ago, the source material is now readily
> available--even online--and the situation is starting to change,
> which creates lots of nice opportunities.
So let's turn to a live object. I'm currently practising an
allemande in
A minor by Bocquet (Oeuvres des Bocquet, CNRS edition, piece # 8, p.
77
= Vm7 6214, fol.6v-7). If that is available to you, what do say
about
the execution of the ornaments?
Mathias
> > > tablatures for d-minor tuning in the CNRS Bocquet volume
are by a Mlle.
> > > Bocquet. Apparently, Monique Rollin did not have a single
shred of
> > > evidence that this music was by one of the two lute-playing
Mlles.
> > > Bocquet. The attribution was entirely speculative. One
wishes it
> > > were so, but it is not.
> >
> >It was for want of any other suitable candidate. There's merely
the name
> >Bocquet, mentioned without given name, in tablatures of the 2nd
half of
> >the 17th century. Rollin says at the very beginning of her
introduction
> >(op. cit., p. xxiii-xxvi) that one cannot be sure. So, it remains
her
> >suggestion, and may I add, quite a convincing one IMO. The
material she
> >offers, and her arguments, possibly qualify as a bit more than a
shred.
> >Not of evidence, to be sure, but of plausibility.
> >
> > > See the review by Henry L. Schmidt in Notes,
> > > Vol. 29, No. 4 (June, 1973) pp. 784-786.
> >
> >I don't have access to that review (it's not available at our
local
> >university library), unfortunately. Would you mind to give an
abstract
> >or something to that effect?
> >
> >Mathias
> > > > Dear Collected Wisdom,
> > > >
> > > > in several threads, Stewart, David Tayler, Jorge, et al
nicely sorted
> > > > out this topic (Re: French Style, and Re: A very basic
question),
> > > > concluding that a trill consists of appogiatura (coule),
which is
> > > > necessary, trill (tremblement), which is desirable, and
termination
> > > > (cadence) in special cases.
> > > >
> > > > However, the comma (curved line right to the letter) is
without
> > > further
> > > > elaboration explained as simple trill in the CNRS edition
of Bocquet
> > > > (Monique Rollin, Corpus des luthistes franc,ais, Oeuvres
des Bocquet,
> > > > 1972, p. xxxiii), i. e. without appogiatura. And it makes
sense with
> > > the
> > > > music by Mlle. Bocquet.
> > > >
> > > > Could it be that appogiatura is not as essential to the
French trill
> > > as
> > > > it previously may have seemed?
> > > > --
> > > > Mathias
To get on or off this list see list information at
[1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
