Am 14.05.2018 um 04:11 schrieb Richard Kimberly Heck:
The ONLY question at the moment is
about a warning
dialog at the outset:
Yes. and i made clear why I won't take the responsibility to do this.
You try to please the, let's say 5 % of our expert users who might have
some reasons not to update MiKTeX. But as i told you, these people can
already do this and the installer already respects their decision.
> As JMarc mentioned, he uses Windows all the time
JMarc knows how to act if e.g. MiKTeX 32 bit was installed as admin and
MiKTeX 64bit over it only with user privileges? This would be fine,
because I don't want to be the only one taking care of the installer.
I understand that you think this would confuse 'ordinary users'. But
even if you are
right, then (a) we can figure out some way to help them and (b) that is
out-weighed
by the fact that updating MikTeX can cause serious problems for some
users. That is
the 'harm' we've been talking about. Breaking people's systems is not a
triival matter,
Sorry, but exactly sentences like these make me angry. Updating the
package handling system does not break peoples system! I hate to hear
such claims. During the last 2 months where the installer is online more
than 1000 users downloaded and most probably used it. Did you hear
something that it broke their system? I only got feedback that it was
broken during the usage of LyX and whenever I sent them my installer
they could repair their system.
as I have José, and many others have said. Even *the MikTeX maintainer*
has made it clear that we should not update MikTeX without asking permission
from
the user.
Where has he stated this? Why did he not stated this to me? However i
spent much, much time and more many users there is no other reason than
to update MiKTeX. So why should we offer them to deny this? This makes
no sense.
Why is my proposal not taken into account: Not having MiKTeX updated
is an expert thing. Therefore only experts should be bothered with
this. experts can read the announcement.
Because no one reads ANNOUNCE, even expert users. And by the time the
update is done, the damage is done.
Aha. But because the 5 % expert users don't read announcements I should
bother 95 % of the users with a message they won't understand and when
they therefore make a false decision they end up with an unusable LyX?
Average user can misunderstand it with a probability of 50%. Those who
misunderstood it and denied the update can end up with an unusable LyX.
No, they do not. If they deny, then NOTHING HAPPENS.
Damn, that is not true! Or why do you think I am so insisting here? I
got reports about this, I could verify the problems and that is why I
got active.
If they don't update and later on trigger the update or new installation
of a package they end up with a completely broken LyX/LaTeX. Therefore
we cannot allow that nothing happens.
> I also understand that there are other things that could happen, that
have nothing to do with the LyX installer, that would break people's
MikTeX installations. That is unfortunate, but not our problem
Sorry again, but this is so arrogant! Reading statements like this make
me really wonder if I should stay with LyX. In my world people are
users. They just use programs. Nobody cares what is going on behind the
scenes. Either LyX works or not. If not they will look for another
program. There are plenty of alternatives on the market for free too. So
either the installer takes care that LyX will work under all
circumstances or people won't use it. They will write in forums that LyX
is crap or similar and we loose users. Because again, users just use. Or
do you really expect users to learn that LyX bases on other program?
)LibreOffice does too and recently I used it almost daily. I don't know
anything about its background (how the spell checker works, how images
are input etc.).)
> then there are users whose MiKTeX will never get updated, and
then their systems will be broken. Maybe so. But that, again, is not our
problem.
What? Really? If this is your opinion, I am out. I never treated users
like this. I tried to respect users, I spent hours to help users because
I know how it is if you e.g. prepared you master's thesis and during the
fine-tuning for the layout you end up with a broken LyX. Then you panic.
And when will most users trigger package updates or new package
installation? - during the final layout process. Your professor e.g.
requires TOCs for every chapter or whatever. So you insert the
corresponding code and this will trigger in the background the
installation of a new package. And those who installed MiKTeX in the
months around September 2017 - January 2018 will then end up with a
completely unusably LyX.
Leaving users lost like this despite I know how to prevent this is not
what I am standing for. So if this is LyX's new policy, I will quit.
regards Uwe
