Cara, my only comment is thank you for stating what I was trying to say, but apparently not very clearly. So, you have a wonderful Holiday as well and no further from me on this topic.
On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:05 PM, Cara Quinn wrote: > Okay, guys, enough! > > Personally, as I read it, the original point was not necessarily to convert > anyone to Apple. It was to establish that access out-of-the-box is a very > desirable thing. > > I support this view whole-heartedly as do most (if not all) of us here. > > For some who may have funding from rehab organizations this level of access > may be taken for granted, but for those whom choose to pay for their own tech > solutions, the idea of universal access is definitely a welcome one. > > As well, for those living completely independently of sighted assistance, > bolt-on solutions just don't cut it. -And, I'd posit, that this kind of > scenario is merely somewhat of a 'pseudo' sense of independence. If your > computer or phone crashes to the point that you need to rely on someone to > help you simply for the fact that they are sighted, then, in a sense, how > independent are you really? > > So, whether you love Microsoft, Apple, and any cell phone manufacturers, or > the screen access solutions they entail, I think we can all agree that more / > better / easier access is a terrific thing! Yes?… > > Thanks so much for such a great discussion, and I'd personally love to see > this continue on Chris's VO BS list if Chris and ya'll are up for it. :) > > To everyone, I wish you and yours a truly lovely holiday season!… > > Smiles, > > Cara :) > --- > View my Online Portfolio at: > > http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn > > Follow me on Twitter! > > https://twitter.com/ModelCara > > On Dec 22, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: > > defending? YOur flippent I'm better than you so go away attitude really > doesn't say much for your position. > On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:49 PM, Scott Howell wrote: > >> Well whatever, because now your message isn't making a lot of sense. At this >> rate your defending yourself way to hard, so lets just move along to a new >> topic. We all know VO is great or we wouldn't be using it. I don't care >> about JAWS WE, NDA, or whatever other flavor of WIndows screen reader you >> choose to talk about. It all boils down to what works and how you go about >> it is what matters and that was pretty much my point. >> So, hey, go enjoy whatever machine/OS/screen reader. Have a great Holiday. >> On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: >> >>> Again, vo is great. Everyone is making reasons why it is good, which wasn't >>> the point in what I said. All I'm saying is the fact that the mac would >>> work from the store I bought it on doesn't mean much as I didn't even buy >>> it from a store. Yes, it is great. I love the built-in screen reader >>> support, but it seems we go over how amazing it is at least once or twice a >>> week when someone else is converted. I love it's stability and security >>> over windows. But the fact that I have to install a program really doesn't >>> irc me all to much. It is a bit hard, but with things like NVDA I can walk >>> up to a windows system and pop in a USB key and be read to roll. Sure it >>> doesn't support everything, but it supports quite a bit to make it worth >>> using. I do tech support and computer repair around the town I live in, and >>> I've used this solution coupled with narrator many times to get me up and >>> running on a system I'm fixing. Along with a set of programs I built for >>> troubleshooting and cleaning up viruses and such, NVDA is amazing. Sadly >>> though more and more people are buying macs, it's not a huge chunk of the >>> market to the point where I can just walk to any computer and more than >>> likely it'll be a mac. While there are macs out there, the whole "I can go >>> anywhere and use it," doesn't exactly work, because there really aren't to >>> many floating around. I believe that in order to be productive, we need to >>> be able to use *any* computer, whether it be windows or mac, and even a >>> linux system, though a portable linux reader doesn't currently exist to my >>> knowledge. >>> >>> On Dec 22, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: >>> >>>> One other nice thing with VO is it draws a box on the screen to show where >>>> focus is which helps a lot when collaborating with folks who can see the >>>> screen. Jaws doesn't do this so when working together it can be hard to >>>> tell where the Jaws user is on a page. No such problem with VO and you >>>> could even pull up the caption panel to make it even more clear what VO >>>> was just saying. >>>> >>>> CB >>>> >>>> Michael Huckabay wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Yes verry good points. You wouldn't have jaws on every computer. Say you >>>>> go to work and have to use a computer. Well with a PC and jaws you would >>>>> hav to get jaws and put it on that computer wich is changing a computer >>>>> that possibley you would mabey not be using all the time. With a mac all >>>>> you have to do is turn vo on and your set. So if it was a differnt >>>>> computer well you would still be able to work with it. One other thing >>>>> is if you had to help some one say a sighted friend fix there computer. >>>>> You would have to put some sort of speach software on it because you >>>>> could help them. With a mac you could sall the problem and then just turn >>>>> vo off. >>>>> Just some of my thoughts on this. >>>>> Mike. >>>>> On 2009-12-22, at 4:42 PM, John André Netland wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, I think you forget one important point in this discussion; The Mac >>>>>> and the iPhone/iPod Touch not only speaks out of the box in the Apple >>>>>> Store, it also talks without any additional software on any Mac and any >>>>>> iPHone/iPod Touch your friends, your family, your internet cafés, your >>>>>> library, your school, your university, your work etc etc have at their >>>>>> location. So, you are not forced to use only your own special edited and >>>>>> pre-installed PC at home or at work, with only one authorization >>>>>> available. You are free to use any Mac/iPHone/iPod Touch on this planet. >>>>>> If your unit is stolen, lost, broken or simply not where you currently >>>>>> are, there are always another one available. No re-installing, >>>>>> re-authorization, help to perform installation etc etc. That is a >>>>>> consept I like, and would like to benefit from. In addition, my Mac and >>>>>> iPHone is currently what makes me productive and able to run my business >>>>>> with success. NOt that I could not do just that with a PC, but not wit >>>>>> h that kind of freedom. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just my little point of view on this subject. Smiles. >>>>>> >>>>>> Take care, and have a lovely Christmas everyone! >>>>>> >>>>>> John André >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 22. des. 2009, at 22.13, Tyler Littlefield wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe you should re-read my message. I said VO still needs help, >>>>>>> not "I still need help." >>>>>>> While a computer that talks off-the-shelf is great, that's no reason to >>>>>>> tell someone they need to buy the mac. While I like the mac, the cost >>>>>>> really doesn't balance out having a computer that talks in the apple >>>>>>> store. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I still stand by what I've said since I received voiceover. There are >>>>>>> some things that VO does and doesn't do better than Jaws. I think we >>>>>>> should be looking at what the reader gives us when advertizing it >>>>>>> rather than saying "You can use this in the store." Because in reality >>>>>>> it doesn't really matter to our productivity if it works off the shelf. >>>>>>> While I think the IPhone is great, as I said, I will be buying >>>>>>> something that isn't an IPhone because of it's voice active issues. >>>>>>> Reading off a number while being with someone if you want to >>>>>>> three-way-call is quite annoying in its self, much less having to make >>>>>>> sure things are quiet. >>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Scott Howell wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tyler, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I do not understand your comment below. What does it talking out of >>>>>>>> the box have to do with whether you need help. I do not understand >>>>>>>> the connection. Can you elaborate? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sure, but just because it talks out of the box doesn't mean much. >>>>>>>>> Don't get me wrong, I love my VO, but there still are things that it >>>>>>>>> needs help with. >>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ALthough I agree there needs to be no mission in converting folks,, >>>>>>>>>> I do believe it makes sense to let any and all know. Whether you >>>>>>>>>> like the iPhone or not is in my mind irrelevant. What is relevant >>>>>>>>>> is the fact that finally now a blind or visually impaired person can >>>>>>>>>> now go into a store and purchase an accessible product, whether that >>>>>>>>>> be a computer, iPhone, or iPod, and not have to purchase additional >>>>>>>>>> and expensive software makes a tremendous difference. >>>>>>>>>> I think there is more to be gained by proving the Mac or other >>>>>>>>>> offerings by Apple are viable solutions is what will sell the >>>>>>>>>> product to a blind or visually impaired user honestly. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Tyler Littlefield wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The iphone seems nice enough, but lets not go on a converting >>>>>>>>>>> rampage. I'm personally getting something else, because I don't >>>>>>>>>>> like the iphone, even if we had service for it where I'm at. >>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:46 AM, Jess wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi folks, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I'm getting the IPhone 3 GS today. But more than that, >>>>>>>>>>>> folks, we need to keep the trend of switching to the Mac and >>>>>>>>>>>> IPhone going. The more people we have switching, the more inclined >>>>>>>>>>>> Apple will be to continue support and development for Voice OVer. >>>>>>>>>>>> For the first time, I can walk into a store, pick up a phone, and >>>>>>>>>>>> have it talk out of the box. I don't have to have this special >>>>>>>>>>>> software that makes my phone accessible, and explain to people, >>>>>>>>>>>> oh, this is special software that reads aloud what you see on the >>>>>>>>>>>> screen. When I mention to people that I am going to get the >>>>>>>>>>>> IPhone, I feel a great deal of satisfaction that people don't look >>>>>>>>>>>> at me and go, well Jess, youre blind, so how the hell will you be >>>>>>>>>>>> able to use it? It's awesome that I can be treated as an equal. We >>>>>>>>>>>> half! to keep this trend up! Otherwise, what we have waited for, >>>>>>>>>>>> hoped for, and longed for, access to something right out of the >>>>>>>>>>>> box, will soon be gone forever! And by the way, every time I try >>>>>>>>>>>> to convince someone that accessibility is a right and we have the >>>>>>>>>>>> right to have 100 percent access to everything we buy, that >>>>>>>>>>>> argument that we are to small of a market is always what I get. >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry, but Apple is proving that argument to be void, and I >>>>>>>>>>>> have never agreed with >>>>>>>>>>>> it and never will. Any thoughts on this post? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jes >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
