On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 10:07 +0200, ext Qole wrote: > > > 2009/6/3 Kimmo Hämäläinen <kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com> > On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 09:17 +0200, ext Qole wrote: > > That's quite disappointing. > > Don't worry, hildon-desktop will be open-source, so you can > fix it > yourself ;) > > No, I said in my first e-mail that I'm not a developer. And I'm not > paid by Nokia. And if you wait for the community to fix it, you'll > have waited too long. > > I'm an engaged user and a great Maemo fan who just sees a problem -- > very few options to develop for the hardware-accelerated graphics for > Maemo 5 -- and I think it needs to be addressed now, before hardware > is released. > > I find your "fix it yourself" attitude strange. > > Do you not see a problem here?
Which problem? > Is a 30% performance penalty for 3D applications acceptable? I already said that I'm working on non-composited mode, didn't I? I don't have to do this, but I'm kind person :) > Do you want people to write hardware-accelerated applications for > Maemo? Sure. Nobody is preventing that. > There will be a great many more people expressing disappointment if > this issue isn't addressed in a timely fashion. > > I'm sure you are working on it; I have faith you'll fix the problem; I > only wish this area was farther along in development. Well, the device is not out yet, so how far it could be? -Kimmo > > > > -Kimmo > > > > > > I'm looking forward to seeing further news about "game > mode," I guess. > > > > 2009/6/2 Kimmo Hämäläinen <kimmo.hamalai...@nokia.com> > > Hi, > > > > On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 00:53 +0200, ext Qole wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 3:04 PM, David Greaves > > <da...@dgreaves.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I understood that GL wasn't going to be > available to > > the apps > > > on the device... > > > something about the window manager > permanently > > taking the only > > > viewport? > > > > > > I am not sure if this is a beta-phase bug > or a > > hardware or > > > GLES issue. > > > > > > David > > > -- > > > "Don't worry, you'll be fine; I saw it > work in a > > cartoon > > > once..." > > > > > > > > > I think you are referring to the following two > posts, both > > by Kimmo > > > Hämäläinen. I don't believe they say that GL won't > be > > available, but > > > that there will be a performance hit > > > > > > OpenGL is not available in the device but OpenGL ES2 > is. > > Notice that > > this is a big problem when porting OpenGL > applications from > > the desktop > > PC world. Some kind of OpenGL to OpenGLES > conversion layers > > are > > possible but with some FPS cost, I assume. > > > > > because the apps will have to go through Hildon- > Desktop to > > render, > > > rather than rendering directly. > > > > > > Yes, about 30% penalty with the compositor, but I'm > working on > > "non- > > composited" or "game mode" for hildon-desktop that > allows > > shutting down > > the compositor and rendering directly to the screen > (without > > killing > > hildon-desktop). I still need to get it working > with dialogs > > and menus > > popping on top of the non-composited application, > but I guess > > it'll work > > in the end somehow. > > > > BR; Kimmo > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo- > developers/2009- > > > March/018639.html > > > > > > As Kate has already proven, multi-context > works. > > > But as long as you have hildon-desktop > running in > > the > > > background, you > > > will not render directly to the screen > even if you > > use > > > Clutter/QtGraphicsView/EGL > +OpenGLES2.0/whatnot in > > your > > > application. When > > > hildon-desktop is running, it is the only > one > > drawing on the > > > screen > > > (with the exception of XVideo). So, > killing hildon- > > desktop is > > > the only > > > way to get direct rendering to the screen > at the > > moment. (We > > > might have > > > something more elegant for this in the > future...) > > > > > > http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo- > developers/2009- > > > March/018645.html > > > > > > Keeping the compositor around has some > performance > > impact, > > > because after > > > the application draws to an offscreen > pixmap (the > > window), the > > > X server > > > sends Damage events (saying "this part of > the pixmap > > changed") > > > to > > > hildon-desktop, and hildon-desktop asks > the 3D HW to > > use this > > > pixmap in > > > a OpenGL texture and draw it to the > screen. So, > > there is some > > > extra > > > delay (maybe 10-25ms) after the > application's > > drawing is > > > visible. > > > > > > Second implication is that you cannot use > HW > > accelerated > > > zooming and > > > moving of textures for the whole graphical > pipeline. > > You can > > > use it for > > > drawing into your window, but when hildon- > desktop > > draws to the > > > screen, > > > it cannot use it (e.g. it cannot say "move > this > > content to > > > there"). It > > > will just get a big damage area that is > updated by > > updating > > > the OpenGL > > > texture content. > > > > > > Third implication: to save memory, we are > using the > > texture- > > > from-pixmap > > > GL extension to allow the X server and 3D > HW share > > the pixmap > > > data. This > > > means that while 3D HW is accessing the > pixmap data > > (while > > > transferring > > > it to the 3D chip), X server cannot access > it. Thus, > > while the > > > compositor is updating the screen, it is > slowing > > down X > > > drawing. > > > However, it's not mandatory to use > texture-from- > > pixmap, but > > > then you are > > > paying the price in increased RAM usage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > enthusiast, n. "One whose mind is wholly possessed > and > > heated by what > > > engages it; one who is influenced by a peculiar > fervor of > > mind; an > > > ardent and imaginative person." > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > enthusiast, n. "One whose mind is wholly possessed and > heated by what > > engages it; one who is influenced by a peculiar fervor of > mind; an > > ardent and imaginative person." > > > > > > -- > enthusiast, n. "One whose mind is wholly possessed and heated by what > engages it; one who is influenced by a peculiar fervor of mind; an > ardent and imaginative person." _______________________________________________ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
