> On 22 Jul 2022, at 12:22, Simon Arlott via mailop <mailop@mailop.org> wrote: > > On 22/07/2022 10:21, Laura Atkins via mailop wrote: >>> After that there should be an integrated opt-in process to verify any >>> new email address for that ESP customer's list. >> >> While this sounds simple and like a no-brainer, it doesn’t account for how >> complex many companies email programs are. In many, many cases full customer >> data isn’t kept at the ESP - nor should it be. The ESP doesn’t need to know >> (and in fact absolutely shouldn’t know) things like credit card numbers or >> login passwords. There are also a number of systems that don’t keep email >> addresses at all. Mail is triggered through an API call and all of the email >> addresses are stored on the sender’s system, “lists” never go near the ESP. >> All the ESP sees are send requests. > > At no point did I suggest the ESP needs to receive more than the email > address?
You didn’t say it, no. But that’s what your comment "It should only be possible to import addresses from a list once or twice, not on a regular basis” leads to. That’s what I meant by “it sounds simple but it’s not.” The “simple" solution you're suggesting cannot work because it doesn’t address the reality of how bulk email is handled. The only practical way to not upload addresses on a regular basis is to keep all customer data at the ESP and build your entire customer database around the ESP. Otherwise, you’re going to need to import addresses on a regular basis. On a practical level, say you want to send email to users that have purchased a particular product because that’s been recalled. Either, the purchase data needs to be inside the ESP or the list of users who have purchased that product needs to be updated. Or, you want to send email to users that have opened your application in the last month. Either you need to have that data inside the ESP or you need to upload the list of users to the ESP on a regular basis. > Only the email verification message needs to go through the ESP. It > could insert a confirmation token in a URL that the ESP customer then > presents to confirm opt-in for that ESP account. The user experience is an issue here. I have multiple big senders who use 2 or even 3 different ESPs - typically for different types of messages. Are they supposed to confirm the email address through each ESP individually? Is that a reasonable process to expect to happen? > None of this prevents PayPal, banks, etc. from operating. It also > doesn't prevent online shops from operating but it does complicate the > process of receiving a receipt if that normally comes direct from the > payment processor because all messages would need to use the same ESP. My point exactly. And expecting people to confirm every source of email independently is not a solution. > There's just a conflict of interest between "people pay us to send > email" and "people who pay us nothing don't want to receive that email”. You’re forgetting another group: People who pay us nothing want to and expect to receive this email. One of the most challenging bits of email filtering is dealing with emails that are wanted by some recipients and are unwanted by other recipients. This isn’t a new concept at all, it’s a problem that I remember having discussions with JD about back when he was at Y! (and he’s been gone for more than a decade at this point). laura -- The Delivery Experts Laura Atkins Word to the Wise la...@wordtothewise.com Email Delivery Blog: http://wordtothewise.com/blog
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