====================================================================== Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. ======================================================================
I'm aware of the reports, Louis, and am less impressed by them than you are. Distrust of politicians is as endemic as the regular eruption of popular protest in capitalist societies. In the US, many conservative Republicans and liberal Democrats mistrust their leaderships. But they rarely if ever break with them because they much more fear the opposition. In the Ukraine, if the masses in the western regions abandon the right-centre Yatsenyuk government in reaction to austerity, it will most likely be to move further to the right, to right-wing populist formations like Svoboda and the Right Sektor who are waiting in the wings. That is what the EU and US politicians fear. There are no remotely comparable alternatives on the left, and it is hard to see one developing given the ethnic rather than class consciousness of the mass of the Ukrainian population as well as the legacy of "really existing socialism" in the former Soviet republics and Eastern Europe. But I'd love to be proven wrong, and your perspective vindicated. > On Mar 11, 2014, at 2:02 PM, Louis Proyect <l...@panix.com> wrote: > >> On 3/11/14 12:52 PM, Marv Gandall wrote: >> The previous Yushchenko and Tymoshenko governments which drew for >> support on the Ukrainian-speaking Western part of the country were >> equally subservient to the oligarchs and did little to raise the >> living standards of the people, but this was generally overlooked by >> the crowds in Kyiv and elsewhere in their eagerness to restore their >> own bourgeois ethnocrats to power. Alas, a sign of the times. > > > OVERLOOKED BY THE CROWDS, REALLY?????????????? > > > Comrades, especially Marv, should listen to the entire 11 minute phone > conversation between Paet and Ashton. The most interesting thing is the first > 8 minutes or so when Paet reports that "civil society", in other words, > ordinary Ukrainians who took part in the Orange Revolution or who supported > the removal of Yanukovych and entry into the EU--and nothing else--now expect > a clean break with oligarchy and corruption. He says that they regard the > Tweedle-Dee as having a "dirty past", even though Tweedle-Dum was even > dirtier. > > The idea that such people were "subservient" to the new crew is belied by > both the phone call and reports from many different sources that seems to > have eluded Marvin Gandall. > > http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/01/urkaine-crisis-maidan-idUSL6N0LY0SM20140301 > While the new government has not made direct calls for protesters to leave, > many on the square distrust the new leadership to enact the kind of reforms > they want and have vowed to stay. > > Protesters on the square universally tell tales of the wild riches that > ordinary parliamentarians gain - one confidently talked of the "millions" a > member of parliament can get for voting correctly during a debate. They > reckon that the leaders of the opposition-turned government, such as acting > President Oleksander Turchinov and Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk will enjoy > such benefits. > > > http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21597974-can-ukraine-find-any-leaders-who-will-live-up-aspirations-its-battered-victorious > None of the politicians, including the three opposition leaders Arseny > Yatsenyuk, Vitaly Klitschko, a former boxer, and Oleh Tyagnibok, are trusted > by Maidan. Witness the reaction to Ms Tymoshenko’s appearance on Maidan after > her release from prison. In the Orange revolution she was treated like a > messiah. This time, while people were glad to see that she had been freed, > they knew better than to put their fate in her hands—or those of any other > politician for that matter. > > http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304255604579407421341927360 > Ukrainians distrust, with good reason, the entire political class. Mr. > Yanukovych wasn't the only greedy or incompetent pol here. But the Maidan > crowds can't rule the country, and in the past five days, parliament has > assumed that role. On Wednesday night, the names of those who would lead a > proposed new transitional government were announced before thousands packed > in at the Maidan. Some were booed, others were cheered. > > Behind closed doors, the politicians are "trying to recreate the old system," > says Mustafa Naim, an Afghan-Ukrainian journalist, furious at the signs of > deal-making by the same old faces. "You can see it in their eyes. We may need > to go out on the Maidan again." He says Ukraine needs to clean the whole > political slate by scheduling a parliamentary election to coincide with the > planned presidential vote in late May. > > Mr. Naim started all this in late November by calling a meeting on the Maidan > to protest Mr. Yanukovych's decision to abandon an EU "association" pact. Now > he hosts a show on a new television channel, Hromadske, created out of the > Maidan movement and funded by donations. "I think it's very good that people > don't believe the politicians," he says. "It means they won't allow them to > disappoint us again." > > Nine years ago, the Orange Revolution here overturned a fraudulent election > result but failed to change Ukraine's political ways. The recent revolt > pitted a grass-roots movement against a Kremlin desperate to save its > favorite embezzler in Kiev. The Maidan won. Another hard battle has just > begun, but I wouldn't bet against these determined people. > > ________________________________________________ > Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu > Set your options at: > http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/marvgand2%40gmail.com ________________________________________________ Send list submissions to: Marxism@greenhouse.economics.utah.edu Set your options at: http://greenhouse.economics.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
