On Tue, Dec 2, 2025 at 09:40 PM, Mark Baugher wrote: > > In many, if not most, left groups, the members don't run things but > instead get to elect the people who do.
On Wed, Dec 3, 2025 at 08:09 AM, Benjamin Morgan wrote: > > To me these issues of division of labor are insurmountable. Based on these > organizational failures I personally am discouraged by both Leninism and > participatory models that centralize decision making power into the hands > of a small cadre of representatives. Most people bring different levels of commitment to an organization. Not all want to lead. Many are too busy at work and with family, prioritize more compelling outside interests, lack the necessary self-confidence, or don’t want the responsibility for some other reason. They’re content to let the more dedicated and ambitious compete for leadership. They'll endorse those who are elected or who gain and hold power by other means if and when they are periodically asked to do so. Even the most radical and democratic political and trade union leaders, those most inclined to trust the judgement of the base, soon come to recognize the difficulty of mobilizing it in normal times. The masses revolt only when the they're driven to it, most often when their society or organization is in crisis, when they conclude that the existing leadership - and sometimes the structure itself - no longer meets their needs. They either succeed in replacing the leadership or are defeated and suppressed or, if they can, leave to start anew. This has been the lesson of history and it’s been reflected in our own lived experience in politics and the workplace. I don't expect this condition to change until people have significantly more leisure time and the economic security to develop a greater interest in the management of their collective affairs. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#39588): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/39588 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/116549413/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/13617172/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
