las wrote:
>
> That's what you would think and if you tried to copy the DVD to a VHS tape you
> couldn't. But I had no problem doing this up to a few weeks ago when I purchased
> a new Flat screen Toshiba TV/VCR combo with extra video inputs. I took the video
> out of the DVD player and plugged it into the video in of the VCR. The I used the
> RF out to the TV without any problems.
Larry,
I think you either got lucky in that your Philips VCR is more resistant
to MV than others, or the particular DVD you were playing didn't enable
Macrovision.
> I think that all it is doing is converting the composite video to RF. I don't
> think that the Macrovision kicks in unless you try to record. The VCR was a cheap
> off brand made by Phillips that was only a few months old. It was a Hi Fi Stereo
> but Wal Mart (I guess I'm spending way too much time in that place-in another few
> years your going to see me like those senile people in their ads roaming aimlessly
> around) was selling the ones they had left from Black Friday, for $59.
MV kicks in at all times. Neither my Sony SLV-595HF nor SLV-585HF can
pass the video without the ugly effects of MV showing up. Whether your
VCR is affected by it, or if the DVD turns it on, is another issue.
> I didn't try recording, but I'm sure it would NOT work. But it was no problem
> going through the RF out. I thought that Macrovision had something to do with
> messing up the signal when you tried to record. As long as you don't involve the
> recording section I don't think it affects it.
>
> If what you mentioned were true and it didn't matter whether you were recording or
> just playing it back, you would not be able to watch the DVD on anything using an
> analog video input. So I don't think that is is the DAC that causes the problem.
I'm pretty sure many VCR's are affected by Macrovision simply by trying
to pass the video through. I've received several requests to make
Macrovision Disabled chips for Apex DVD players where the owner claims
he/she is just wanting to pass the signal through a VCR to use it as an
RF modulator. I know my own tests with my Sony VCR's prove that at
least those specific models are affected by MV. However, I didn't use
the RF out. I had video out from the VCR going to the TV, and DVD
player video out going to video in on the VCR.
It's definitely the Video DAC that generates Macrovision. The DVD
player won't enable Macrovision on the video output unless the DVD
requests it. Some DVD's have the Macrovision flag set to off, and
others (most movies) set the flag to ON. By law, all DVD players must
enable MV in the video DAC when the DVD requests it, but that's what the
Apex hacks do... the hacked chips cause the players to ignore
Macrovision enable requests. If you're still skeptical, here's a
datasheet for the ADV7170 (the video DAC used in many DVD players)
http://www.analog.com/pdf/ADV7170_71_0.pdf
> This is what it says on the Macrovision web site:
>
> "The DVD copy protection process is activated during DVD
> authoring, and is transparent to the picture on original disc
> playback. However, when individuals attempt to make a
> copy on a VCR, the technology is designed to distort the
> unauthorized copy to such an extent that the copy will
> generally have no entertainment value."
>
> I think the key phrase here is copy. The process does not affect the signal if it
> is simply passed through.
Yes, but also realize that the signal HAS to be passed through because
the DVD player has no idea whether you hit the RECORD button on your VCR
or not! The video signal getting passed through the VCR is the same
signal that would be recorded if you press the REC button.
> It's interesting that they also claim on the website that if you copy an
> unprotected DVD you can make a commercial grade VHS tape. Somehow I just feel
> that unless you have a very high end VCR, the copy isn't going to be
> "commercial-quality" as Macrovision claims.
They're probably claiming this as a theoretical possibility... something
you COULD do if you had a good enough VCR.
> I have an Apex DVD player. Unfortunately, it was made just after the so called
> "loophole menu" was eliminated. There is a guy who will sell you the chip to
> restore it. But the Apex is not that great a DVD player. I notice a lot of sync
> problems with the audio, so I'm afraid that buying a chip that will restore it to
> the "original" version might even make it worse.
Ah, lip sync problems. You must have the original AD-600A.
The loophole menu firmware is old and outdated. All the newer firmware
is free of hidden backdoors, but also fixes problems such as the lip
sync problem. I would recommend getting the latest firmware for that
Apex. The latest firmware versions have been hacked as well. No
loophole menu, but the hacks hard-code disable the Macrovision and
region.
Apex quality control certainly sucks. I've heard of many people that
have bought them, discovered terrible video quality or unusual pausing
between chapters, only to exchange it for another identical unit which
turns out to have neither of those problems. I guess that's why you can
get a DVD player that reads CD-R/RW, VCD, SVCD, HDCD, and decodes MP3's
for around $100 or less.
> Anyway, once you've watched DVDs, why would you want to make VHS copies? Unless
> your nuts, your not going to sell them. What could you do, sell bootleg copies of
> new releases for $4 each? So you made maybe $3 on a tape. Where are you going to
> do this out of the back of a truck?
I don't know. I don't make VHS copies, but I can see that some people
might want to rent or borrow a DVD and make a copy for themself on VHS.
Some people also don't mind watching the same move over and over, so I
guess if they don't own the DVD, they can copy it and have the copy for
later.
> The DVD drive in the Apex is actually a DVD ROM, that's how they are able to read
> MP3 files. But without the rest of the computer, you still can't use it to play
> DVD ROM games.
The DVD-ROM drive is how Apex got their players so cheap and were the
first to have CD-R/RW and MP3 decoding.
However, there are DVD players out there that are built on a
conventional (proprietary) chassis that can read CD-R/RW and decode
MP3's. I don't believe Aiwa, Samsung, or Panasonic's DVD players are
based on a DVD-ROM drive, yet some models have MP3 decoding ability.
That's true that you can't play DVD-ROM games... except Toshiba and
Samsung have DVD players based on some kind of NUON processor and they
can play special NUON enhanced DVD-ROM game discs.
Shawn
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