Re: [MBZ] Doing SVO Wrong

Sun, 10 May 2009 14:33:03 -0700 

Maybe this is the way to deal with the issue

http://kineticvehicles.com/

clay

On May 10, 2009, at 7:59 AM, Peter Frederick wrote:


WVO contains several things that cause trouble as fuel:

Protein (clogs filters, carbonizes, and produces varnish in the IP)

Carbohydrates (clogs filters and carbonizes easily, abrasive)
Phosphates (abrasive soots, can produce hard precipitates in the fuel system).
Properly made BioD removes all this stuff, leaving you with very pure methyl esters of fatty acids (the phospholipids stay in the aqueous phase). Lower viscosity (at above freezing temps), no varnish, no sludge, no "coking out" in the wrong places, etc. Note that you MUST wash it until it's water clear -- the brown muck I've seen on TV makes me shudder! Nothing like some residual lye to clean up the IP, eh? 

A bit more work, but better fuel.
If you have poor combustion, I suspect that WVO WILL coke up the rings pretty fast, and I suspect most of the cheapskates who want to run "free" fuel aren't going to put the $ into getting the engine into tip top shape first. 

Peter

On May 10, 2009, at 2:32 AM, Luther wrote:
Frybrid is in this for profit. Please show me independent and repeatable research that shows where VO (WVO or SVO) will not cause long term damage to an engine. In 5 years of being around WVO/ biodiesel, no one has shown me this research. VO must be heated over 350F to make the viscosity similar to diesel. 

A quote from the Frybrid website:
"
The simplest way to explain this is with a simple analogy: Imagine placing a pan on the stove, pouring a small amount of vegetable oil in the pan, and turning the heat to high. The pan will begin to heat up and as it does it will heat the oil, around 300F the oil will start to smoke, then turn black, stick to the pan, and destroy it. Now put out the fire, open all the doors and windows and allow the air to clear.* 
"
*
BUZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTT, WRONG! Fries are cooked in oil at temps around 350F! 
"
On a typical day at McDonald's, oil temperature in the fryer averages about 340 degrees F. So when a cook grabs strips of icy potatoes out of the freezer and tosses them into hot oil, water in the potatoes immediately begins to evaporate. Bubbles and steam emerge, creating an enormous cycle of heat transfer between the oil and the potato. The process, Farkas says, may be the most important factor in producing the texture of the final fried product. 
"
from http://ucdavismagazine.ucdavis.edu/issues/su01/feature_2.html

or
"
Cooking time in 360 degree F Oil
"
from http://www.mvproduce.com/ffries.html

And for the smoke points of different oils:
"

 1. Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point> lists the
    smoke points of some popular oils as:
        * Canola oil (Refined): 468 degrees Fahrenheit (242 degrees
          Celsius)
        * Corn oil (Refined): 450 degrees Fahrenheit (232 degrees
          Celsius)
        * Grapeseed oil: 420 degrees Fahrenheit (216 degrees Celsius)
        * Lard: 370 degrees Fahrenheit (182 degrees Celsius)
        * Peanut oil (Refined): 450 degrees Fahrenheit (232 degrees
          Celsius)
* Safflower oil (Refined): 450 degrees Fahrenheit (232 degrees 
          Celsius)
        * Sunflower oil (Semirefined): 450 degrees Fahrenheit (232
          degrees Celsius)
        * Vegetable shortening: 360 degrees Fahrenheit (182 degrees
          Celsius)
              o These smoke points are not set in stone, as much
                depends on the oil brand and refinement process
                <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_oil>. A general
                rule is that lighter, more refined oils have higher
smoke points <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_oil >. 

"
from http://www.mahalo.com/How_to_Deep_Fry_Anything
Given that Frybrid blatantly lies about the smoke point of VO, what else in their "bibliography of research papers" is stretching the truth or a blatant lie? Oh yes, the wonders of the internet, where you can say anything you want and find P.T. Barnum suckers all day long..... 

Luther, still not sold on vegetable oil as a diesel fuel substitute


Michael E. Esh wrote:
Here is the site of the system I am currently using to burn waste vegetable oil. (WVO) I simple filter the oil using a small centrifuge. I do not process it into bio diesel. What I am doing is very safe. This site 
explains the process very clearly.
http://www.frybrid.com/svo.htm

Thanks,

mike


-----Original Message-----
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Luther
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 1:01 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Doing SVO Wrong


Please provide the link to the study you read.

Luther

Tyler wrote:
These sort of engine problems are essentially unheard of in MB diesels 
that haven't run WVO.

I still stand by the claim that WVO is good, but only if the oil is
heated really hot, and filtered really well (and it almost never is). 
I did read a well designed scientific study once which showed no
measurable long term wear increase using well heated WVO compared to regular diesel, but cold WVO caused serious engine damage in a short 
time period. I suppose people will want a link... I'll see if I can
find it.

Sincerely,
Tyler

On May 8, 2009, at 6:11 PM, Michael LaFleur wrote:
Why is it that every benz that has an engine problem that was run on WVO, WVO is blamedas the reason for the failure, but every other benz 
that has an engine problem, diesel is not the blame?

Mike

--
Luther   KB5QHU    Alma, Ark
'87 300SDL (281,xxx mi)
'85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x59,xxx mi) BioBeast
'82 300CD (183 kmi)
'82 300D  (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold
'85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine "The Accordion"


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