* Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-10-31 08:40]:
> On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
> > we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
> > to write in english...
>
> How can we get started on the code unless we have some idea of where
> to start on the code? Sure we could just code whatever, but why would
> we waste time on things that may be useless?
Simple. You start reading code.
>
> > > Obviously patches will be subject to peer review. Even if a patch isn't
> > > approved, the coder should have learned something new and useful.
> >
> > Yeah, right.
>
> I don't understand. Is newbies learning new things a waste to you? Do
> you think they won't really learn anything unless the patch is
> approved?
No, newbies learn something by reading code. and finding
something they are interested and passionate enough in to learn
how something very difficult works, then realizing that they are
a complete idiot and it doesn't work that way, and then doing it
again, several times.
> Or will the patches not be subject to peer review? Or are
> you worried at who would pass for peer review getting overwhelmed by a
> huge volume of poor quality patches?
Yes, and yes.
Basically look, when it comes to the kernel there are two
types of student, the self taught, and the hopeless. While we
will more than be willing to help people who take the initiative themselves
to look for something and work on it. This takes a significant amount
of our time and energy. A lot of it actually. Yes, learning the kernel
and how the basics work is a barrier to entry. It needs to be so, people
without the motivation to get over that hump on their own will simply
sap too much time from the people who have otherwise.
Basically I'm telling you, if you want to play in this area, you need
to earn your stripes. *earn* - not have shown to you. Sorry if that
sounds elitist, but that's the simple fact. Already overworked senior
developers do not have time to spoon feed people who already
demonstrate that they will not take the initiative to learn things on
their own. Sorry, that's just the facts guys. It's the difference between:
1) Help me, I don't know how this works but it's cool I want to do things.
- Did you try to figure it out?
No please show me. Tell me what to do... <sit and wait for direction>
and
2) Ok, I think this is important, and I think it works this way...
- No you're not quite right, your assumptions are wrong at a, b, and c
go back and try again
Oh, ok <goto top>
Number 2 gets to doing useful things a hell of a lot faster, and the
time spent by the person giving the "-" reply is a heck of a lot more
productive.
-Bob
