But how do you "learn linux"? The best way to teach someone linux is lock him in a room and not let him out until he can install Gentoo, stage 1, blindfolded, without a keyboard, or mouse.
On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 22:05 +0200, Anton Xuereb wrote: > I did actually handle an eeepc...very nice machine altho totally > useless for anyone who wants to _learn_ linux..If you just wanna use > it then it's great and amazing! > > Jean: about the modded distro...we have already discussed the idea > during the last meeting, mostly for a distribution targeted to IT > students with developement tools already installed. > > M > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 9:31 PM, Gianluca Magro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > To be honest, I don't think converting software to the Maltese > language would really help... most people prefer to use > software in English... I mean there is the Maltese language in > Windows.. but usually people choose English as the language > for their OS and not Maltese... Most tech words would still be > in English anyway. Of course the upstream would be a nice > thing, and could (maybe) give more exposure to Malta and MLUG > in that case, but would people really use it? > > Re: Azureus... ye, forgot about it, I don't use torrents > anymore :p > > PS Thanks Jean & Raphael :) > > -bix > > Raphael Borg Ellul Vincenti wrote: > > > I personally prefer fixing the problems upstream (sorry Gianluca ... > > big word) and provide good translations to the distributions and the > > desktop projects rather than creating yet another distribution. > > Ultimately, the maltese don't want any different applications than > > anybody else. If they really (really really) want they can change > the > > language to Maltese. But ultimately its the same software. > > > > I know someone who has the Eee PC at work, and Keith can probably > back > > me up with his impressions of the device, since I myself only saw it > > in the hands of the salesman at scan and it was switched off - damn! > > > > I think the punchline is to convince them to use applications which > > suck less :P Never do the mistake of promising the world. > > > > -- > > Raphael > > > > P.S Printer configuring and scanner detection have been top notch > > on my linux machine (latest openSUSE here) and I am far from > > grumbling. I plugged it in into I don't know how many devices and it > > just worked. Comparing that to the endless amount of detecting > > hardware and general bugginess in XP, I am feeling better off. Dunno > > about Windows but I heard that driver support there is even worse. > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 9:01 PM, Jean Azzopardi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > Amarok is soon getting a Windows version, since they're using QT > 4 now. > > > I forgot VLC for a while, as I don't use it so much on Linux, > although > > > it was my best friend when I was using Windows. Same goes for > > > Thunderbird. There's also Azureus, the Bittorrent client, for > instance. > > > > > > Another thing that will definitely help is Vista. Most people I > know > > > complain about it, and it's insane memory requirements, > especially if > > > their hardware is middle of the line, like mine. > > > > > > Now, how do you convince Joe Public to use OpenSource software > instead > > > of proprietary software? How do you spread the word? > > > > > > P.S. I nearly forgot, what about the EEEPc of Asus, it has Linux > > > preloaded on it. Has anyone seen one yet in Malta? I know it's > for sale, > > > but I don't know anyone who bought it. What I do know is that most > > > people regard it as being a very good device in general, with > Linux only > > > enhancing that image, even among people who aren't very hardware > savvy. > > > > > > A possible solution might be to see what the Maltese market likes, > > > modify Ubuntu and create a distro of our own (perhaps with a good > > > Maltese translation? Who knows? Getting the Akkademja tal-Malti > on our > > > side might prove fruitful.) Then, collude with a local retailer to > > > bundle it on a laptop, and see how people react to the product. > > > > > > Of course, we'd have to provide some means of support..as I can > already > > > foresee problems from the end users, especially as they try and > use > > > their own software on it/or plugin devices that are not > compatible (This > > > might really hurt..what do you tell someone whose expensive > printer > > > doesn't work?) > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the long post... :D, and super long P.S., and good luck > with > > > Linux, Gianluca! And the exams :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 19:03 +0200, Gianluca Magro wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, first time posting on this mailing list, but here goes :P > > > > > > > > Continuing to what Raphael said, it is a bit difficult to push > linux > > > > into people who only use their computer for fun and don't even > know > > > > what e-mail program they're using. Therefore pushing OSS first > is key > > > > to achieve this. Firefox and OOo are of course ahead of the > rest and > > > > have already starting diffusing amongst the 'normal users'... > Firefox > > > > sort of seems 'cooler' than 'you know what', and maybe that > helped in > > > > pushing Firefox to these people. OOo was pushed because it was > > > > installed on people's PC instead of office (saves money no?). > Amarok > > > > unfortunately doesn't have a Windows version yet so these users > cannot > > > > really try it and see what it's like. > > > > > > > > Moreover it will take some time before a stable build with > features > > > > that overcome WMP's, and only at that point can the software be > pushed > > > > forward. I would suggest pushing ahead software which has > already been > > > > in the Windows scene for quite some time. What about VLC? A > video > > > > player that saves the hassle of downloading a million and one > codecs > > > > for any film or tv series you download, which WMP can't play by > > > > default. I've heard lots of complaints from people who can't > play > > > > their videos, and always solved their problems by redirecting > them to > > > > VLC. > > > > > > > > Gimp is a cool piece of software too but unfortunately not many > people > > > > are into graphic design, and those who are would already use > other > > > > software, so it's quite useless. What about Thunderbird? Great > email > > > > program providing everything that Outlook provides, of course > with > > > > customisable looks and stuff which Outlook doesn't have in > addition to > > > > those. > > > > > > > > However, what I think would be a good thing to promote, that > most > > > > people should start learning to do... would be sourceforge.net > a site > > > > for downloading any random software you'd need. People still > search on > > > > google to find software that converts MKV to AVI... they find > some > > > > program that needs you to pay, and download the program and the > crack > > > > from Ares. We can show people that searching for open source > software > > > > on sites such as sourceforge they would find programs that fit > to any > > > > of their needs are work better than the ones they spent ages to > find, > > > > download and crack. > > > > > > > > Sorry for the long post... but this comes from a user who's > still > > > > pretty new to Linux and doesn't have much background in it, I > think > > > > these are some points that normal users MIGHT be interested in > > > > changing to :) > > > > > > > > - bix > > > > > > > > Anton Xuereb wrote: > > > > > > > > > Seems I missed out a lot on the thread. Some > > > > > people live at their desks it seems. > > > > > > > > > > I try to but don't always manage :( > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Raphael Borg Ellul Vincenti > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Personally I see it as a big sign of disrespect. > Although > > > > > the tshirt > > > > > banner wasn't as bad. Seems I missed out a lot on the > > > > > thread. Some > > > > > people live at their desks it seems. I would like to > voice a > > > > > couple of > > > > > things on the top of my head. > > > > > > > > > > First of all, I see a big difficulty in HR scene > regarding > > > > > Linux and > > > > > or other system programing experience on the island. > Based > > > > > on the CVs > > > > > that I see on my desk, yes we find it extremely > difficult to > > > > > find the > > > > > right people to join our company. Yes we have > products which > > > > > are based > > > > > on Linux let alone core infrastructure. So its > crucial for > > > > > us (2X) to > > > > > find local talent which we could surely use. > > > > > > > > > > Second of all, Anton you forgot world domination > somewhere > > > > > in your list. :) > > > > > > > > > > The workshop is on the top of our list. Well it was > before > > > > > we lost our > > > > > mirror and the world collapsed. Angelo, we would > really like > > > > > to help > > > > > out if there is the need for OSS awareness. Even from > the > > > > > academic > > > > > point of view since OSS reflects most values in > academia of > > > > > publishing > > > > > your work. I am not talking about MS vs Linux here. > > > > > > > > > > Regarding other arguments, yes conversion starts from > the > > > > > applications > > > > > which we use daily on our linux desktops and then to > the > > > > > actual linux > > > > > distribution. I know that after Firefox and OOo, > Amarok will > > > > > be a big > > > > > pusher in the propaganda of OSS and free (as in > speech) > > > > > online music > > > > > stores. > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Anton Xuereb > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > that egging video was hilarious > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Jean Azzopardi > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Yes..or some hungarian students will get creative > with > > > > > some dairy > > > > > >> products. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 13:48 +0200, Anton Xuereb > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Something tells me that Ballmer wouldn't accept > and for > > > > > the love of > > > > > >> > God don't expect me to stand still while so many > chairs > > > > > would be > > > > > >> > waiting to be broken against his back :( > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > ;) > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > M > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Jean Azzopardi > > > > > >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > I vote for Stallman, Torvalds, > Shuttleworth and > > > > > Ballmer as > > > > > >> > guest > > > > > >> > speakers. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 13:30 +0200, > Sebastian > > > > > Cachia wrote: > > > > > >> > > Regards OOo, I used to teach ECDL a > few years > > > > > back, and can > > > > > >> > back up > > > > > >> > > what Anton said, that a number of > students > > > > > had bought PCs > > > > > >> > with OOo > > > > > >> > > pre-installed, and either just stuck > with it, > > > > > or didn't even > > > > > >> > know they > > > > > >> > > were using a different product. Getting > > > > > people to switch to > > > > > >> > Linux > > > > > >> > > would be great, but as Jean said, a > number of > > > > > other open > > > > > >> > source > > > > > >> > > applications exist, and getting people > to > > > > > switch would be a > > > > > >> > great step > > > > > >> > > forward. Also once people are used to > using > > > > > products like > > > > > >> > Firefox, > > > > > >> > > OOo, Gimp, etc, the prospect of using > Linux > > > > > is no longer so > > > > > >> > bad. > > > > > >> > > Afterall, for average user, the > concept of > > > > > the OS is purely > > > > > >> > at an > > > > > >> > > Application layer, and has little to > do with > > > > > what kernel is > > > > > >> > running > > > > > >> > > underneath. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > Last year at Uni, we had an > Introduction to > > > > > Operating > > > > > >> > Systems course > > > > > >> > > (or something like that) by the CIS > > > > > department. It is > > > > > >> > however > > > > > >> > > generally accepted to have been quite a > > > > > disapointment. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > A good place to start might be some > sort of > > > > > Open Source > > > > > >> > seminar, > > > > > >> > > organized by MLUG for Uni ICT > students. A > > > > > list of guest > > > > > >> > speakers could > > > > > >> > > be identified, both from within MLUG, > as well > > > > > as the Uni > > > > > >> > staff. Also, > > > > > >> > > it is generally better to get people > > > > > interested through > > > > > >> > seeing and > > > > > >> > > doing. Some sort of workshop, in a > linux lab > > > > > perhaps, where > > > > > >> > anybody > > > > > >> > > can bring along a laptop and be led > through a > > > > > given topic by > > > > > >> > somebody. > > > > > >> > > Perhaps these could all be joined > together to > > > > > form some sort > > > > > >> > of day > > > > > >> > > long event. > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > >> > > [email protected] > > > > > >> > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > >> > [email protected] > > > > > >> > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > >> > [email protected] > > > > > >> > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > > >> > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MLUG-list mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > MLUG-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > MLUG-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list _______________________________________________ MLUG-list mailing list [email protected] http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list
