Pardon me, but I don't think that's particularly important. Most normal users don't warn to learn Linux. They just learn to use whatever GUI is given to them, be it Gnome/KDE/explorer.exe/OS X, or the interface of the EEEpc.
Things are supposed to work, because the hardware is customised for it. Almost nobody needs to use the terminal for that regard. And what would you define learning linux? Learning Ubuntu? Becoming a gnome poweruser? Or a KDE poweruser? Very few things are central among all Linux distributions. Even bash can be replaced with fish, zsh, etc. On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 22:27 +0200, Anton Xuereb wrote: > What i mean is that the eeepc is a sandbox, it in itself works fine, > no quirks no problems, so anyone using it will be on a point and click > diet...the ui is way dumbed down and the options are restricted...it's > a much different experience than having a desktop pc with ubuntu > installed and your wic doesnt work > > M > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Jean Azzopardi > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > But how do you "learn linux"? The best way to teach someone > linux is > lock him in a room and not let him out until he can install > Gentoo, > stage 1, blindfolded, without a keyboard, or mouse. > > > On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 22:05 +0200, Anton Xuereb wrote: > > I did actually handle an eeepc...very nice machine altho > totally > > useless for anyone who wants to _learn_ linux..If you just > wanna use > > it then it's great and amazing! > > > > Jean: about the modded distro...we have already discussed > the idea > > during the last meeting, mostly for a distribution targeted > to IT > > students with developement tools already installed. > > > > M > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 9:31 PM, Gianluca Magro > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > To be honest, I don't think converting software to > the Maltese > > language would really help... most people prefer to > use > > software in English... I mean there is the Maltese > language in > > Windows.. but usually people choose English as the > language > > for their OS and not Maltese... Most tech words > would still be > > in English anyway. Of course the upstream would be a > nice > > thing, and could (maybe) give more exposure to Malta > and MLUG > > in that case, but would people really use it? > > > > Re: Azureus... ye, forgot about it, I don't use > torrents > > anymore :p > > > > PS Thanks Jean & Raphael :) > > > > -bix > > > > Raphael Borg Ellul Vincenti wrote: > > > > > I personally prefer fixing the problems upstream > (sorry Gianluca ... > > > big word) and provide good translations to the > distributions and the > > > desktop projects rather than creating yet another > distribution. > > > Ultimately, the maltese don't want any different > applications than > > > anybody else. If they really (really really) want > they can change the > > > language to Maltese. But ultimately its the same > software. > > > > > > I know someone who has the Eee PC at work, and > Keith can probably back > > > me up with his impressions of the device, since I > myself only saw it > > > in the hands of the salesman at scan and it was > switched off - damn! > > > > > > I think the punchline is to convince them to use > applications which > > > suck less :P Never do the mistake of promising the > world. > > > > > > -- > > > Raphael > > > > > > P.S Printer configuring and scanner detection > have been top notch > > > on my linux machine (latest openSUSE here) and I > am far from > > > grumbling. I plugged it in into I don't know how > many devices and it > > > just worked. Comparing that to the endless amount > of detecting > > > hardware and general bugginess in XP, I am feeling > better off. Dunno > > > about Windows but I heard that driver support > there is even worse. > > > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 9:01 PM, Jean Azzopardi > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Amarok is soon getting a Windows version, since > they're using QT 4 now. > > > > I forgot VLC for a while, as I don't use it so > much on Linux, although > > > > it was my best friend when I was using Windows. > Same goes for > > > > Thunderbird. There's also Azureus, the > Bittorrent client, for instance. > > > > > > > > Another thing that will definitely help is > Vista. Most people I know > > > > complain about it, and it's insane memory > requirements, especially if > > > > their hardware is middle of the line, like mine. > > > > > > > > Now, how do you convince Joe Public to use > OpenSource software instead > > > > of proprietary software? How do you spread the > word? > > > > > > > > P.S. I nearly forgot, what about the EEEPc of > Asus, it has Linux > > > > preloaded on it. Has anyone seen one yet in > Malta? I know it's for sale, > > > > but I don't know anyone who bought it. What I do > know is that most > > > > people regard it as being a very good device in > general, with Linux only > > > > enhancing that image, even among people who > aren't very hardware savvy. > > > > > > > > A possible solution might be to see what the > Maltese market likes, > > > > modify Ubuntu and create a distro of our own > (perhaps with a good > > > > Maltese translation? Who knows? Getting the > Akkademja tal-Malti on our > > > > side might prove fruitful.) Then, collude with a > local retailer to > > > > bundle it on a laptop, and see how people react > to the product. > > > > > > > > Of course, we'd have to provide some means of > support..as I can already > > > > foresee problems from the end users, especially > as they try and use > > > > their own software on it/or plugin devices that > are not compatible (This > > > > might really hurt..what do you tell someone > whose expensive printer > > > > doesn't work?) > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the long post... :D, and super long > P.S., and good luck with > > > > Linux, Gianluca! And the exams :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 19:03 +0200, Gianluca > Magro wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, first time posting on this mailing list, > but here goes :P > > > > > > > > > > Continuing to what Raphael said, it is a bit > difficult to push linux > > > > > into people who only use their computer for > fun and don't even know > > > > > what e-mail program they're using. Therefore > pushing OSS first is key > > > > > to achieve this. Firefox and OOo are of course > ahead of the rest and > > > > > have already starting diffusing amongst the > 'normal users'... Firefox > > > > > sort of seems 'cooler' than 'you know what', > and maybe that helped in > > > > > pushing Firefox to these people. OOo was > pushed because it was > > > > > installed on people's PC instead of office > (saves money no?). Amarok > > > > > unfortunately doesn't have a Windows version > yet so these users cannot > > > > > really try it and see what it's like. > > > > > > > > > > Moreover it will take some time before a > stable build with features > > > > > that overcome WMP's, and only at that point > can the software be pushed > > > > > forward. I would suggest pushing ahead > software which has already been > > > > > in the Windows scene for quite some time. What > about VLC? A video > > > > > player that saves the hassle of downloading a > million and one codecs > > > > > for any film or tv series you download, which > WMP can't play by > > > > > default. I've heard lots of complaints from > people who can't play > > > > > their videos, and always solved their problems > by redirecting them to > > > > > VLC. > > > > > > > > > > Gimp is a cool piece of software too but > unfortunately not many people > > > > > are into graphic design, and those who are > would already use other > > > > > software, so it's quite useless. What about > Thunderbird? Great email > > > > > program providing everything that Outlook > provides, of course with > > > > > customisable looks and stuff which Outlook > doesn't have in addition to > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > However, what I think would be a good thing to > promote, that most > > > > > people should start learning to do... would be > sourceforge.net a site > > > > > for downloading any random software you'd > need. People still search on > > > > > google to find software that converts MKV to > AVI... they find some > > > > > program that needs you to pay, and download > the program and the crack > > > > > from Ares. We can show people that searching > for open source software > > > > > on sites such as sourceforge they would find > programs that fit to any > > > > > of their needs are work better than the ones > they spent ages to find, > > > > > download and crack. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the long post... but this comes from > a user who's still > > > > > pretty new to Linux and doesn't have much > background in it, I think > > > > > these are some points that normal users MIGHT > be interested in > > > > > changing to :) > > > > > > > > > > - bix > > > > > > > > > > Anton Xuereb wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Seems I missed out a lot on the thread. Some > > > > > > people live at their desks it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > I try to but don't always manage :( > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 5:11 PM, Raphael > Borg Ellul Vincenti > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Personally I see it as a big sign of > disrespect. Although > > > > > > the tshirt > > > > > > banner wasn't as bad. Seems I missed > out a lot on the > > > > > > thread. Some > > > > > > people live at their desks it seems. > I would like to voice a > > > > > > couple of > > > > > > things on the top of my head. > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, I see a big difficulty > in HR scene regarding > > > > > > Linux and > > > > > > or other system programing > experience on the island. Based > > > > > > on the CVs > > > > > > that I see on my desk, yes we find > it extremely difficult to > > > > > > find the > > > > > > right people to join our company. > Yes we have products which > > > > > > are based > > > > > > on Linux let alone core > infrastructure. So its crucial for > > > > > > us (2X) to > > > > > > find local talent which we could > surely use. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second of all, Anton you forgot > world domination somewhere > > > > > > in your list. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > The workshop is on the top of our > list. Well it was before > > > > > > we lost our > > > > > > mirror and the world collapsed. > Angelo, we would really like > > > > > > to help > > > > > > out if there is the need for OSS > awareness. Even from the > > > > > > academic > > > > > > point of view since OSS reflects > most values in academia of > > > > > > publishing > > > > > > your work. I am not talking about MS > vs Linux here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding other arguments, yes > conversion starts from the > > > > > > applications > > > > > > which we use daily on our linux > desktops and then to the > > > > > > actual linux > > > > > > distribution. I know that after > Firefox and OOo, Amarok will > > > > > > be a big > > > > > > pusher in the propaganda of OSS and > free (as in speech) > > > > > > online music > > > > > > stores. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 2:08 PM, > Anton Xuereb > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > that egging video was hilarious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 1:59 PM, > Jean Azzopardi > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Yes..or some hungarian students > will get creative with > > > > > > some dairy > > > > > > >> products. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 13:48 > +0200, Anton Xuereb wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Something tells me that Ballmer > wouldn't accept and for > > > > > > the love of > > > > > > >> > God don't expect me to stand > still while so many chairs > > > > > > would be > > > > > > >> > waiting to be broken against > his back :( > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > ;) > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > M > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 1:45 > PM, Jean Azzopardi > > > > > > >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > I vote for Stallman, > Torvalds, Shuttleworth and > > > > > > Ballmer as > > > > > > >> > guest > > > > > > >> > speakers. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sat, 2008-05-24 at > 13:30 +0200, Sebastian > > > > > > Cachia wrote: > > > > > > >> > > Regards OOo, I used > to teach ECDL a few years > > > > > > back, and can > > > > > > >> > back up > > > > > > >> > > what Anton said, that > a number of students > > > > > > had bought PCs > > > > > > >> > with OOo > > > > > > >> > > pre-installed, and > either just stuck with it, > > > > > > or didn't even > > > > > > >> > know they > > > > > > >> > > were using a > different product. Getting > > > > > > people to switch to > > > > > > >> > Linux > > > > > > >> > > would be great, but > as Jean said, a number of > > > > > > other open > > > > > > >> > source > > > > > > >> > > applications exist, > and getting people to > > > > > > switch would be a > > > > > > >> > great step > > > > > > >> > > forward. Also once > people are used to using > > > > > > products like > > > > > > >> > Firefox, > > > > > > >> > > OOo, Gimp, etc, the > prospect of using Linux > > > > > > is no longer so > > > > > > >> > bad. > > > > > > >> > > Afterall, for average > user, the concept of > > > > > > the OS is purely > > > > > > >> > at an > > > > > > >> > > Application layer, > and has little to do with > > > > > > what kernel is > > > > > > >> > running > > > > > > >> > > underneath. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Last year at Uni, we > had an Introduction to > > > > > > Operating > > > > > > >> > Systems course > > > > > > >> > > (or something like > that) by the CIS > > > > > > department. It is > > > > > > >> > however > > > > > > >> > > generally accepted to > have been quite a > > > > > > disapointment. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > A good place to start > might be some sort of > > > > > > Open Source > > > > > > >> > seminar, > > > > > > >> > > organized by MLUG for > Uni ICT students. A > > > > > > list of guest > > > > > > >> > speakers could > > > > > > >> > > be identified, both > from within MLUG, as well > > > > > > as the Uni > > > > > > >> > staff. Also, > > > > > > >> > > it is generally > better to get people > > > > > > interested through > > > > > > >> > seeing and > > > > > > >> > > doing. Some sort of > workshop, in a linux lab > > > > > > perhaps, where > > > > > > >> > anybody > > > > > > >> > > can bring along a > laptop and be led through a > > > > > > given topic by > > > > > > >> > somebody. > > > > > > >> > > Perhaps these could > all be joined together to > > > > > > form some sort > > > > > > >> > of day > > > > > > >> > > long event. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >> > > MLUG-list mailing > list > > > > > > >> > > > [email protected] > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >> > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > > >> > [email protected] > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >> > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > > >> > [email protected] > > > > > > >> > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >> MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > > > >> > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MLUG-list mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MLUG-list mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > _______________________________________________ > MLUG-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > MLUG-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list _______________________________________________ MLUG-list mailing list [email protected] http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list
