So might as well wash our hands of the millions who use Windows? On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 23:05 +0200, Anton Xuereb wrote: > ofcourse, however if a user get used to the interface of the eeepc, > he's gonna find it hard to get used to a full blown desktop such as > gnome or kde > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Jean Azzopardi > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Pardon me, but I don't think that's particularly important. > > Most normal users don't warn to learn Linux. They just learn > to use > whatever GUI is given to them, be it Gnome/KDE/explorer.exe/OS > X, or the > interface of the EEEpc. > > Things are supposed to work, because the hardware is > customised for it. > Almost nobody needs to use the terminal for that regard. > > And what would you define learning linux? Learning Ubuntu? > Becoming a > gnome poweruser? Or a KDE poweruser? Very few things are > central among > all Linux distributions. Even bash can be replaced with fish, > zsh, etc. > > > > > On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 22:27 +0200, Anton Xuereb wrote: > > What i mean is that the eeepc is a sandbox, it in itself > works fine, > > no quirks no problems, so anyone using it will be on a point > and click > > diet...the ui is way dumbed down and the options are > restricted...it's > > a much different experience than having a desktop pc with > ubuntu > > installed and your wic doesnt work > > > > M > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Jean Azzopardi > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > But how do you "learn linux"? The best way to teach > someone > > linux is > > lock him in a room and not let him out until he can > install > > Gentoo, > > stage 1, blindfolded, without a keyboard, or mouse. > > > > > > On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 22:05 +0200, Anton Xuereb > wrote: > > > I did actually handle an eeepc...very nice machine > altho > > totally > > > useless for anyone who wants to _learn_ linux..If > you just > > wanna use > > > it then it's great and amazing! > > > > > > Jean: about the modded distro...we have already > discussed > > the idea > > > during the last meeting, mostly for a distribution > targeted > > to IT > > > students with developement tools already > installed. > > > > > > M > > > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 9:31 PM, Gianluca Magro > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > To be honest, I don't think converting > software to > > the Maltese > > > language would really help... most people > prefer to > > use > > > software in English... I mean there is the > Maltese > > language in > > > Windows.. but usually people choose > English as the > > language > > > for their OS and not Maltese... Most tech > words > > would still be > > > in English anyway. Of course the upstream > would be a > > nice > > > thing, and could (maybe) give more > exposure to Malta > > and MLUG > > > in that case, but would people really use > it? > > > > > > Re: Azureus... ye, forgot about it, I > don't use > > torrents > > > anymore :p > > > > > > PS Thanks Jean & Raphael :) > > > > > > -bix > > > > > > Raphael Borg Ellul Vincenti wrote: > > > > > > > I personally prefer fixing the problems > upstream > > (sorry Gianluca ... > > > > big word) and provide good translations > to the > > distributions and the > > > > desktop projects rather than creating > yet another > > distribution. > > > > Ultimately, the maltese don't want any > different > > applications than > > > > anybody else. If they really (really > really) want > > they can change the > > > > language to Maltese. But ultimately its > the same > > software. > > > > > > > > I know someone who has the Eee PC at > work, and > > Keith can probably back > > > > me up with his impressions of the > device, since I > > myself only saw it > > > > in the hands of the salesman at scan and > it was > > switched off - damn! > > > > > > > > I think the punchline is to convince > them to use > > applications which > > > > suck less :P Never do the mistake of > promising the > > world. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Raphael > > > > > > > > P.S Printer configuring and scanner > detection > > have been top notch > > > > on my linux machine (latest openSUSE > here) and I > > am far from > > > > grumbling. I plugged it in into I don't > know how > > many devices and it > > > > just worked. Comparing that to the > endless amount > > of detecting > > > > hardware and general bugginess in XP, I > am feeling > > better off. Dunno > > > > about Windows but I heard that driver > support > > there is even worse. > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 9:01 PM, Jean > Azzopardi > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Amarok is soon getting a Windows > version, since > > they're using QT 4 now. > > > > > I forgot VLC for a while, as I don't > use it so > > much on Linux, although > > > > > it was my best friend when I was using > Windows. > > Same goes for > > > > > Thunderbird. There's also Azureus, the > > Bittorrent client, for instance. > > > > > > > > > > Another thing that will definitely > help is > > Vista. Most people I know > > > > > complain about it, and it's insane > memory > > requirements, especially if > > > > > their hardware is middle of the line, > like mine. > > > > > > > > > > Now, how do you convince Joe Public to > use > > OpenSource software instead > > > > > of proprietary software? How do you > spread the > > word? > > > > > > > > > > P.S. I nearly forgot, what about the > EEEPc of > > Asus, it has Linux > > > > > preloaded on it. Has anyone seen one > yet in > > Malta? I know it's for sale, > > > > > but I don't know anyone who bought it. > What I do > > know is that most > > > > > people regard it as being a very good > device in > > general, with Linux only > > > > > enhancing that image, even among > people who > > aren't very hardware savvy. > > > > > > > > > > A possible solution might be to see > what the > > Maltese market likes, > > > > > modify Ubuntu and create a distro of > our own > > (perhaps with a good > > > > > Maltese translation? Who knows? > Getting the > > Akkademja tal-Malti on our > > > > > side might prove fruitful.) Then, > collude with a > > local retailer to > > > > > bundle it on a laptop, and see how > people react > > to the product. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, we'd have to provide some > means of > > support..as I can already > > > > > foresee problems from the end users, > especially > > as they try and use > > > > > their own software on it/or plugin > devices that > > are not compatible (This > > > > > might really hurt..what do you tell > someone > > whose expensive printer > > > > > doesn't work?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the long post... :D, and > super long > > P.S., and good luck with > > > > > Linux, Gianluca! And the exams :P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 19:03 +0200, > Gianluca > > Magro wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, first time posting on this > mailing list, > > but here goes :P > > > > > > > > > > > > Continuing to what Raphael said, it > is a bit > > difficult to push linux > > > > > > into people who only use their > computer for > > fun and don't even know > > > > > > what e-mail program they're using. > Therefore > > pushing OSS first is key > > > > > > to achieve this. Firefox and OOo are > of course > > ahead of the rest and > > > > > > have already starting diffusing > amongst the > > 'normal users'... Firefox > > > > > > sort of seems 'cooler' than 'you > know what', > > and maybe that helped in > > > > > > pushing Firefox to these people. OOo > was > > pushed because it was > > > > > > installed on people's PC instead of > office > > (saves money no?). Amarok > > > > > > unfortunately doesn't have a Windows > version > > yet so these users cannot > > > > > > really try it and see what it's > like. > > > > > > > > > > > > Moreover it will take some time > before a > > stable build with features > > > > > > that overcome WMP's, and only at > that point > > can the software be pushed > > > > > > forward. I would suggest pushing > ahead > > software which has already been > > > > > > in the Windows scene for quite some > time. What > > about VLC? A video > > > > > > player that saves the hassle of > downloading a > > million and one codecs > > > > > > for any film or tv series you > download, which > > WMP can't play by > > > > > > default. I've heard lots of > complaints from > > people who can't play > > > > > > their videos, and always solved > their problems > > by redirecting them to > > > > > > VLC. > > > > > > > > > > > > Gimp is a cool piece of software too > but > > unfortunately not many people > > > > > > are into graphic design, and those > who are > > would already use other > > > > > > software, so it's quite useless. > What about > > Thunderbird? Great email > > > > > > program providing everything that > Outlook > > provides, of course with > > > > > > customisable looks and stuff which > Outlook > > doesn't have in addition to > > > > > > those. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, what I think would be a > good thing to > > promote, that most > > > > > > people should start learning to > do... would be > > sourceforge.net a site > > > > > > for downloading any random software > you'd > > need. People still search on > > > > > > google to find software that > converts MKV to > > AVI... they find some > > > > > > program that needs you to pay, and > download > > the program and the crack > > > > > > from Ares. We can show people that > searching > > for open source software > > > > > > on sites such as sourceforge they > would find > > programs that fit to any > > > > > > of their needs are work better than > the ones > > they spent ages to find, > > > > > > download and crack. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry for the long post... but this > comes from > > a user who's still > > > > > > pretty new to Linux and doesn't have > much > > background in it, I think > > > > > > these are some points that normal > users MIGHT > > be interested in > > > > > > changing to :) > > > > > > > > > > > > - bix > > > > > > > > > > > > Anton Xuereb wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems I missed out a lot on the > thread. Some > > > > > > > people live at their desks it > seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I try to but don't always > manage :( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 5:11 PM, > Raphael > > Borg Ellul Vincenti > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Personally I see it as a > big sign of > > disrespect. Although > > > > > > > the tshirt > > > > > > > banner wasn't as bad. > Seems I missed > > out a lot on the > > > > > > > thread. Some > > > > > > > people live at their desks > it seems. > > I would like to voice a > > > > > > > couple of > > > > > > > things on the top of my > head. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First of all, I see a big > difficulty > > in HR scene regarding > > > > > > > Linux and > > > > > > > or other system programing > > experience on the island. Based > > > > > > > on the CVs > > > > > > > that I see on my desk, yes > we find > > it extremely difficult to > > > > > > > find the > > > > > > > right people to join our > company. > > Yes we have products which > > > > > > > are based > > > > > > > on Linux let alone core > > infrastructure. So its crucial for > > > > > > > us (2X) to > > > > > > > find local talent which we > could > > surely use. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second of all, Anton you > forgot > > world domination somewhere > > > > > > > in your list. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The workshop is on the top > of our > > list. Well it was before > > > > > > > we lost our > > > > > > > mirror and the world > collapsed. > > Angelo, we would really like > > > > > > > to help > > > > > > > out if there is the need > for OSS > > awareness. Even from the > > > > > > > academic > > > > > > > point of view since OSS > reflects > > most values in academia of > > > > > > > publishing > > > > > > > your work. I am not > talking about MS > > vs Linux here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding other arguments, > yes > > conversion starts from the > > > > > > > applications > > > > > > > which we use daily on our > linux > > desktops and then to the > > > > > > > actual linux > > > > > > > distribution. I know that > after > > Firefox and OOo, Amarok will > > > > > > > be a big > > > > > > > pusher in the propaganda > of OSS and > > free (as in speech) > > > > > > > online music > > > > > > > stores. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at > 2:08 PM, > > Anton Xuereb > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > that egging video was > hilarious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 24, 2008 at > 1:59 PM, > > Jean Azzopardi > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Yes..or some hungarian > students > > will get creative with > > > > > > > some dairy > > > > > > > >> products. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> On Sat, 2008-05-24 at > 13:48 > > +0200, Anton Xuereb wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Something tells me > that Ballmer > > wouldn't accept and for > > > > > > > the love of > > > > > > > >> > God don't expect me > to stand > > still while so many chairs > > > > > > > would be > > > > > > > >> > waiting to be broken > against > > his back :( > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > ;) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > M > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > On Sat, May 24, 2008 > at 1:45 > > PM, Jean Azzopardi > > > > > > > >> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I vote for > Stallman, > > Torvalds, Shuttleworth and > > > > > > > Ballmer as > > > > > > > >> > guest > > > > > > > >> > speakers. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > On Sat, > 2008-05-24 at > > 13:30 +0200, Sebastian > > > > > > > Cachia wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > Regards > OOo, I used > > to teach ECDL a few years > > > > > > > back, and can > > > > > > > >> > back up > > > > > > > >> > > what Anton > said, that > > a number of students > > > > > > > had bought PCs > > > > > > > >> > with OOo > > > > > > > >> > > > pre-installed, and > > either just stuck with it, > > > > > > > or didn't even > > > > > > > >> > know they > > > > > > > >> > > were using > a > > different product. Getting > > > > > > > people to switch to > > > > > > > >> > Linux > > > > > > > >> > > would be > great, but > > as Jean said, a number of > > > > > > > other open > > > > > > > >> > source > > > > > > > >> > > > applications exist, > > and getting people to > > > > > > > switch would be a > > > > > > > >> > great step > > > > > > > >> > > forward. > Also once > > people are used to using > > > > > > > products like > > > > > > > >> > Firefox, > > > > > > > >> > > OOo, Gimp, > etc, the > > prospect of using Linux > > > > > > > is no longer so > > > > > > > >> > bad. > > > > > > > >> > > Afterall, > for average > > user, the concept of > > > > > > > the OS is purely > > > > > > > >> > at an > > > > > > > >> > > Application > layer, > > and has little to do with > > > > > > > what kernel is > > > > > > > >> > running > > > > > > > >> > > underneath. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > Last year > at Uni, we > > had an Introduction to > > > > > > > Operating > > > > > > > >> > Systems > course > > > > > > > >> > > (or > something like > > that) by the CIS > > > > > > > department. It is > > > > > > > >> > however > > > > > > > >> > > generally > accepted to > > have been quite a > > > > > > > disapointment. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > A good > place to start > > might be some sort of > > > > > > > Open Source > > > > > > > >> > seminar, > > > > > > > >> > > organized > by MLUG for > > Uni ICT students. A > > > > > > > list of guest > > > > > > > >> > speakers > could > > > > > > > >> > > be > identified, both > > from within MLUG, as well > > > > > > > as the Uni > > > > > > > >> > staff. Also, > > > > > > > >> > > it is > generally > > better to get people > > > > > > > interested through > > > > > > > >> > seeing and > > > > > > > >> > > doing. Some > sort of > > workshop, in a linux lab > > > > > > > perhaps, where > > > > > > > >> > anybody > > > > > > > >> > > can bring > along a > > laptop and be led through a > > > > > > > given topic by > > > > > > > >> > somebody. > > > > > > > >> > > Perhaps > these could > > all be joined together to > > > > > > > form some sort > > > > > > > >> > of day > > > > > > > >> > > long event. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > >> > > MLUG-list > mailing > > list > > > > > > > >> > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > >> > MLUG-list > mailing list > > > > > > > >> > > [email protected] > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > >> > MLUG-list mailing > list > > > > > > > >> > > [email protected] > > > > > > > >> > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > >> MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > > > > >> > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > MLUG-list mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MLUG-list mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MLUG-list mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > _______________________________________________ > MLUG-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > _______________________________________________ > MLUG-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list
_______________________________________________ MLUG-list mailing list [email protected] http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list
