Rich, I agree with much of what you have stated. In particular the three
points. And, yes, I wish John wouldnt have made a mistake. But again, the
Dracula window card was way prior to anyone suspecting anything. I also wish a
certain professional restorer wouldnt have made the fakes in the first place.
Now, that would have changed the course of this entire mess. And, I can tell
you for sure & document as well, the fact that this certain restorer had at
least three opportunities to see that his fakes had gone public, and stop the
problem. Three times at least, he repaired the fake he made and sent them back
to people without warning them. Now, this guy knew they were fakes and still
did not stop making them. He know they were in the hands of other people, but
did not warn them. he claims to have not thought Haggard would let these out
into the public. Yet, on three occasions, all prior to Johns mistake, he could
have warned the hobby. Also, why did he make 5 fakes of several different
poster? Despite the fact that he made every fake and propagated this hobbies
problem, there are several prominent people who still support this guy. That
is why I wrote the note in the first place. It is incredible that people still
support this guy.
No Rich, John made a mistake. But he, Carol and Diane are the best people to
now make honest and safe evaluations. I support all three. And, I practice
what I preach. I sent John a poster to check today. Thats because I have a
lot of confidence that John does in fact know how to check these posters.
Something you and others dont know. When I sent John and Carol large amounts
of fakes, I purposely put in cards that were from "other" sources. It was a
test. And both of them passed completely. They both identified fakes, all of
which came from the "alleged" source. And in every case, they said the other
cards and posters were good. They are batting 100% since the problem became
known. While I didnt send any to Diane, I have complete confidence in her
also. If I knew she had interest I would have included her too.
Rich it is easy to sit back and take shots. John is very capable of detecting
the truth.
Jim Gresham
18501 Henry Ct.
Ray, Mi 48096
586 677-7669
Go to www.childrenofthenightbook.com
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 15:54:43 -0700
From: sa...@comic-art.com
Subject: Re: [MOPO] 3rd Party Grading Comes to Posters
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Jim
Regardless of John's intentions of good, he does indeed deserve a certain
amount of derision for his role in both the Dracula window card and most
particularly the Dracula 1sheet.
How he missed the Drac window card is one of the great mysteries of our
hobby in recent days, especially as if he had caught it at that
moment:
1) It would never have been auctioned
2) we would have known about the fraud 6-8 months earlier
3) Profiles in History's reputation would not have been
besmirched
The facts are that he restored both of these items and it flies in the
face of common sense to say that "I missed these fakes, but I can
certainly authenticate posters". In one case he even would "bet
his life (sic)" and in at least one instance that I was told
(privately, ergo I cannot give more info) he pronounced an authentic
lobby card as a forgery.
Listen.. as a restorer, John is top-notch. He is among the elite of
poster restoration artists. As an authenticator, his abilities are
clearly lacking and his lack of hubris on the issue of the Dracula S2Art
poster, in my opinion, did not help him any. When that came to light,
there wasn't one person I spoke to the day the catalog came out WITH JOE
PROUDLY PROCLAIMING THE AUCTION OF THE POSTER ON THE COVER OF THE POSTER
JOHN HAD AUTHENTICATED who believed as John did that the poster was real
and immediately people like Richard Evans, Sean, Todd and myself began a
trek to debunk the piece, which was fairly easy. But John still
proclaimed "i'd bet my life".. A certain critique is deserved,
and I think Todd has been reasonably fair in his criticism.
That said, if Todd still supports Jaime, or Kerry.. well that deserves
some critique as well, although Jaime does ameliorate some of his
participation by having come to court and elucidating his participation
to the benefit of all those who have been screwed, and even you support
Jaime in that regard. Kerry of course deserves nothing but disdain and
excommunication within the hobby and whatever the authorities have
planned for him as well.
As far as restoration, from what I have seen, I recommend John Davis
highly, just as I do Diane Jeffrey, Carol Tincup or Lee Milazzo (Poster
Conservation).. As an authenticator, John is definitely not where I would
go
Rich
At 03:25 PM 5/26/2010, JIM GRESHAM wrote:
Todd what you aren't saying is
that he repaired that Dracula Window card prior to this fake problem
surfacing. No one suspected anything. All approaches changed
when it was discovered the hobby had a bad problem. Virtually
everyone in the hobby was fooled, not just John. And when awareness
of the problem surfaced, John and others then took a different look at
things. Yet, you still support the creator of this entire
mess. It seems pretty ironic that on one hand you support the 100%
creator of fakes, but hammer on the guy trying to help this
industry.
Jim Gresham
18501 Henry Ct.
Ray, Mi 48096
586 677-7669
Go to
www.childrenofthenightbook.com
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 18:17:47 -0400
From: toddfeier...@msn.com
Subject: Re: [MOPO] 3rd Party Grading Comes to Posters
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Not only did John Davis at Poster Mountain say a FAKE Dracula Window Card
was real after he re-restored it, he also swore a Dracula REPRINT One
Sheet was also real.
Those are two examples most people know about. Curious to know how
many other FAKES he also swore were real.
On the other hand, since he is obviously no expert, I'm curious to know
how many REAL posters and lobby cards he swore as being FAKE??
Just because someone restores posters, doesn't make them an expert in
authenticating them.
In addition, just because someone has handled a lot of posters, doesn't
make them an expert either.
Todd Feiertag
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 22:06:24 +0100
From: evan...@blueyonder.co.uk
Subject: Re: [MOPO] 3rd Party Grading Comes to Posters
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
It is indeed interesting.
And if they have the right skills and knowledge it could have helped if
they started two years.
But, I still can't get over that someone seemingly had everything at
their disposal and still missed one fake in particular.
Correct me if this is account is inaccurate, but if you strip the false
front from a Window Card back, to improve and replace the back, and
you've years of experience of handling paper, how can you miss
it?
I'm not hinting anything untoward, I just still can't understand
it.
And if they couldn't spot that one, what level of skills and knowledge
are required for us to rely on anyone to prevent any possible next
generation?
Cheers,
Richard
On 26 May 2010, at 21:46, Sean Linkenback wrote:
For a long time now, 3rd party grading has been rumored
to be "just around the corner", "coming soon" and
sometimes "never will happen".
Well that day is finally upon us for better or worse
(though I can't help but wonder if it had been here even two years ago
would collectors have saved literally millions of dollars and maybe the
"Universal Horror Fakes" fiasco might have been over as soon as
it started.)
CGC (Certified Grading Company - the people who have
been grading comics for over a decade) has recently begun limited
certification of lobby cards to test the market and the first examples
will be offered at the upcoming Heritage Signature Auction in July.
Although no photos are on Heritage's site yet, there are two listings
for complete lobby sets (Let It Be, and All The King's Men) that have
been CGC graded/certified.
It will be very interesting to see how these are
accepted in the marketplace.
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