Jim
I agree with you entirely. Jaime should have known what was going on
at some point and if he was restoring his own fakes.. well, that says
everything doesn't it??
However, I'm not taking shots at anyone. If what I said or what Todd
said was not accurate, then we would be wrong to say it/post it. But
if something is true, there is no wrong in talking about it and once
this becomes a public rather than private issue, everyone is free to
comment. Like everyone else in the know before the news broke
publicly, I kept my lips closed. When it became public, I did not
reveal what I knew about who what where or when in deference with you
and others who had been screwed, so while we were all talking about
it and it was clear I knew it was Jaime, I took a lot of heat because
I would not reveal who it was until the correct time so as not to
damage your ability to get him to testify. So when the time is to say
something or not, I treat each with equal judgement.
Concerning John.. you know, just like John is a friend of yours, Joe
Maddelena is a friend and customer of mine and when I was going to
S2Art Gallery and spending my own time debunking John authentication,
I was doing it on Joe's behalf as my friend and Joe's reputation has
taken an enormous hit for selling the Dracula window card (and the
other pieces) and an even bigger hit for having a phony Dracula
poster on the cover of his catalog last October. Not that I don't
understand your wanting to stand up for John - I do. But particularly
on the Dracula 1sheet, Joe's rep has most certainly taken a hit
because of John's lack of ability to understand what he was looking
at and his outright negligence in not comparing it directly to a
poster not 20 miles from his workplace. Had he done so, Joe's rep on
this issue would remain intact. That IS what Joe was paying John for
isn't it?? AN AUTHENTICATION?????
You know, if a trial ever comes (presuming that Kerry doesn't plead)
and John gets called to the stand to testify, the opposing attorney
is going to have a field day with him.
Atty: Mr Davis.. did you authenticate a phony Dracula card as real?
JD: Yes sir
Atty: Did you actually restore this item before it was sold
JD: Yes sir
Atty: Did you later de-authenticate the same item that you restored as a phony
JD: Yes sir
Atty: Mr Davis.. again, at a point after the fraud was uncovered, did
you authenticate another phony Dracula poster as a real one?
JD: yes sir
Atty: did you bet your life on it?
JD: you betcha
atty: Judge, I rest my case
At 04:32 PM 5/26/2010, JIM GRESHAM wrote:
Rich, I agree with much of what you have stated. In particular the
three points. And, yes, I wish John wouldnt have made a
mistake. But again, the Dracula window card was way prior to anyone
suspecting anything. I also wish a certain professional restorer
wouldnt have made the fakes in the first place. Now, that would
have changed the course of this entire mess. And, I can tell you
for sure & document as well, the fact that this certain restorer had
at least three opportunities to see that his fakes had gone public,
and stop the problem. Three times at least, he repaired the fake he
made and sent them back to people without warning them. Now, this
guy knew they were fakes and still did not stop making them. He
know they were in the hands of other people, but did not warn
them. he claims to have not thought Haggard would let these out
into the public. Yet, on three occasions, all prior to Johns
mistake, he could have warned the hobby. Also, why did he make 5
fakes of several different poster? Despite the fact that he made
every fake and propagated this hobbies problem, there are several
prominent people who still support this guy. That is why I wrote
the note in the first place. It is incredible that people still
support this guy.
No Rich, John made a mistake. But he, Carol and Diane are the best
people to now make honest and safe evaluations. I support all
three. And, I practice what I preach. I sent John a poster to
check today. Thats because I have a lot of confidence that John
does in fact know how to check these posters. Something you and
others dont know. When I sent John and Carol large amounts of
fakes, I purposely put in cards that were from "other" sources. It
was a test. And both of them passed completely. They both
identified fakes, all of which came from the "alleged" source. And
in every case, they said the other cards and posters were
good. They are batting 100% since the problem became known. While
I didnt send any to Diane, I have complete confidence in her
also. If I knew she had interest I would have included her too.
Rich it is easy to sit back and take shots. John is very capable of
detecting the truth.
Jim Gresham
18501 Henry Ct.
Ray, Mi 48096
586 677-7669
Go to <http://www.childrenofthenightbook.com>www.childrenofthenightbook.com
----------
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 15:54:43 -0700
From: sa...@comic-art.com
Subject: Re: [MOPO] 3rd Party Grading Comes to Posters
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Jim
Regardless of John's intentions of good, he does indeed deserve a
certain amount of derision for his role in both the Dracula window
card and most particularly the Dracula 1sheet.
How he missed the Drac window card is one of the great mysteries of
our hobby in recent days, especially as if he had caught it at that moment:
1) It would never have been auctioned
2) we would have known about the fraud 6-8 months earlier
3) Profiles in History's reputation would not have been besmirched
The facts are that he restored both of these items and it flies in
the face of common sense to say that "I missed these fakes, but I
can certainly authenticate posters". In one case he even would "bet
his life (sic)" and in at least one instance that I was told
(privately, ergo I cannot give more info) he pronounced an authentic
lobby card as a forgery.
Listen.. as a restorer, John is top-notch. He is among the elite of
poster restoration artists. As an authenticator, his abilities are
clearly lacking and his lack of hubris on the issue of the Dracula
S2Art poster, in my opinion, did not help him any. When that came to
light, there wasn't one person I spoke to the day the catalog came
out WITH JOE PROUDLY PROCLAIMING THE AUCTION OF THE POSTER ON THE
COVER OF THE POSTER JOHN HAD AUTHENTICATED who believed as John did
that the poster was real and immediately people like Richard Evans,
Sean, Todd and myself began a trek to debunk the piece, which was
fairly easy. But John still proclaimed "i'd bet my life".. A certain
critique is deserved, and I think Todd has been reasonably fair in
his criticism.
That said, if Todd still supports Jaime, or Kerry.. well that
deserves some critique as well, although Jaime does ameliorate some
of his participation by having come to court and elucidating his
participation to the benefit of all those who have been screwed, and
even you support Jaime in that regard. Kerry of course deserves
nothing but disdain and excommunication within the hobby and
whatever the authorities have planned for him as well.
As far as restoration, from what I have seen, I recommend John Davis
highly, just as I do Diane Jeffrey, Carol Tincup or Lee Milazzo
(Poster Conservation).. As an authenticator, John is definitely not
where I would go
Rich
At 03:25 PM 5/26/2010, JIM GRESHAM wrote:
Todd what you aren't saying is that he repaired that Dracula Window
card prior to this fake problem surfacing. No one suspected
anything. All approaches changed when it was discovered the hobby
had a bad problem. Virtually everyone in the hobby was fooled, not
just John. And when awareness of the problem surfaced, John and
others then took a different look at things. Yet, you still support
the creator of this entire mess. It seems pretty ironic that on one
hand you support the 100% creator of fakes, but hammer on the guy
trying to help this industry.
Jim Gresham
18501 Henry Ct.
Ray, Mi 48096
586 677-7669
Go to <http://www.childrenofthenightbook.com>www.childrenofthenightbook.com
----------
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 18:17:47 -0400
From: toddfeier...@msn.com
Subject: Re: [MOPO] 3rd Party Grading Comes to Posters
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Not only did John Davis at Poster Mountain say a FAKE Dracula Window
Card was real after he re-restored it, he also swore a Dracula
REPRINT One Sheet was also real.
Those are two examples most people know about. Curious to know how
many other FAKES he also swore were real.
On the other hand, since he is obviously no expert, I'm curious to
know how many REAL posters and lobby cards he swore as being FAKE??
Just because someone restores posters, doesn't make them an expert
in authenticating them.
In addition, just because someone has handled a lot of posters,
doesn't make them an expert either.
Todd Feiertag
----------
Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 22:06:24 +0100
From: evan...@blueyonder.co.uk
Subject: Re: [MOPO] 3rd Party Grading Comes to Posters
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
It is indeed interesting.
And if they have the right skills and knowledge it could have helped
if they started two years.
But, I still can't get over that someone seemingly had everything at
their disposal and still missed one fake in particular.
Correct me if this is account is inaccurate, but if you strip the
false front from a Window Card back, to improve and replace the
back, and you've years of experience of handling paper, how can you miss it?
I'm not hinting anything untoward, I just still can't understand it.
And if they couldn't spot that one, what level of skills and
knowledge are required for us to rely on anyone to prevent any
possible next generation?
Cheers,
Richard
On 26 May 2010, at 21:46, Sean Linkenback wrote:
For a long time now, 3rd party grading has been rumored to be "just
around the corner", "coming soon" and sometimes "never will happen".
Well that day is finally upon us for better or worse (though I can't
help but wonder if it had been here even two years ago would
collectors have saved literally millions of dollars and maybe the
"Universal Horror Fakes" fiasco might have been over as soon as it started.)
CGC (Certified Grading Company - the people who have been grading
comics for over a decade) has recently begun limited certification
of lobby cards to test the market and the first examples will be
offered at the upcoming Heritage Signature Auction in July.
Although no photos are on Heritage's site yet, there are two
listings for complete lobby sets (Let It Be, and All The King's Men)
that have been CGC graded/certified.
It will be very interesting to see how these are accepted in the marketplace.
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