> Z380 will support old ones just as good as Z180 will. You know, many
> undocumented instructions don't exist on Z180 that are used in Z80
> programs. Does it have IXH/IXL? I know for sure it doesn't have SLL! Sure,
> you say that the amount of programs that's used in is soooo little, but it
> isn't a super-fast replacement of Z80. Neither was R800!
If I remember correctly SLL is handled differently on a R800 than on a Z80.
If the Z180 doesn't have IXh/IXl than that is indeed a valid argument to use
the Z380.
I just don't know the exact difference between them. To me, the Z380 seems
the best candidate, because AFAIK (in capitals) the Z380 is only a little
bit slower in Z80-emulation mode than the Z180 is. But if the difference is
very large... Ah, whatever I already said this!
> > If we will do a new computer, it's better do not support MSX at all.
> >Think, man! MSX is weird in several aspects. Why be stuck on these
> >limitations?
>
> I'm not saying anyone should design a NEW COMPUTER with current MSX
> specifications. I'm saying that if you would EXPAND on the current MSX,
you
> had better do it with the most powerful hardware available while still
> maintaining 99% compatibility.
But afaik LPE's design hardly increases the speed of existing software. It
is only faster with new software specifically written for it. And I don't
see a real future in that.
By the way, is the Z380 compatible with the Z180??? If a Z180 computer is
being made, and another more enhanced Z380 computer, then the soft
specifically written for the Z180 'enhanced' mode should also work on the
Z380. If this is not the case I (again) think the Z380 is a better
candidate, because otherwise it won't be upward compatible... And that would
be stupid.
> You're overreacting a bit aren't you?
Nope.
> Ofcourse they are all new opcodes, Z380 has expanded the Z80 instruction
> set almost 200%! The Z380 board by Padial, is not some frankenstein 32 bit
> slot PCI compatible etc etc, it's a 32 bit MSX(!!!). As far as I know
there
> are not intentions for any compatibility with PCI, let alone amiga or
atari.
I do not dislike the Z380, but I do dislike the things like putting your
processor in an expansion slot and not having direct access to old hardware.
> If used in the 32bit slotexpander, the Z380 is ofcourse capable of
> accessing hardware directly, that could be the Gfx9000 (normal 8bit
> cartridges also fit in the slotexpander) or the Moonsound. These are
> next-generation MSX hardware, they deserve to be accessed by a
> next-generation CPU.
That's cool, and that's the part I like better of LPE's design. What if he
'converts' this expander to a mainboard with on it a Z380, a Z80, a v9958
(or 38), a PSG, etc. all with direct access??? Well, now I'm floating more
to Ademir's idea.
> >Ademir WAS USING Z380,
> >but some day, when he ASSEMBLED the machine and put it to work he noticed
> >that Z380 HAD TO BE SLOWED DOWN to cope with MSX hardware. This is
> >THROW PROCESSOR POWER TO THE TRASH. This is something done frequently
> >on PC. This is NOT a good thing to do.
>
> Read the above, there is no slowing down of the Z380 happening AT ALL. But
> if it were, the same would count for a Z180!
>
> Z180 will have to be slowed down if it's going to access MSX hardware
directly!
I agree.
Except for the last, afaik Ademir creates entirely new VDP, PSG and PPI
chips. Which will have less timing-problems. Btw, can this v9958-clone also
emulate the original v9958's speed as well as run at full speed? For the
badly-programmed games which time on the VDP instead of interrupts (I think
XAK, SD-Snatcher, YS and all those alike do).
> MSX is NOT limited, it's been the philosophy of MSX for almost 2 decades
to
> be an EXPANDABLE system.
Which, I am sorry to say, failed.
PC is an expandable system, with all its drivers etc. and having every
component pluggable.
MSX is hardly.
> >And note, even on a system running
> >at 33Mhz, the but frequency must be selected, because some hardware (most
of
> >them) did not support anything greater than 3.57Mhz! Note, this is a
> >GREAT limitant.
>
> again, there is no such limitation on the Z380 board by Padial.
I think the engine should automatically slowdown too fast access to I/O
ports. The way LPE's design does it is, if not 'bad', then at least 'not
nice'.
> > Note, I'm NOT saying that Z380 is worst than Z180 (this would be
insane!).
> >I'm just saying that, FOR USE ON MSX the Z180 is actualy better on
overall,
> >not talking specifically about speed.
>
> I disagree with you completely.
I partly too. I have no objection against the Z380 unless there is a really
large difference in speed.
> The power of the Z380, especially with the new instructions, is great
> enough to run C programs very fast (SP-relative addressing!). That means
> many more programmers will be tempted to program for MSX, since they do
not
> have to bother with assembly.
I think not.
> Assembly programmers will be delighted by the incredible new instructions
> and given new motivation for creating stuff. Why aren't there any more
cool
> demo's made? Because everthing's been done on MSX already, Z380 will open
a
> lot of new doors, more than even a very fast Z180 could.
I am not delighted by those new instructions because they cause
incompatibility with not Z380-expanded MSX computers. I want to run my
programs to run better, faster, smoother on a Z380. But I don't want my
programs not to work at all on normal MSX systems...
> There's absolutely NO good reason to use Z180 in stead of Z380 in a future
> MSX, NONE I tell you.
That is true, unless ofcourse... well, I am getting repetative, am I not???
~Grauw
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