"First: take it to court. Potentially expensive, and probably not good for
public relations for either party" probably the only sentence that makes
sense in this "affaire"
from a mysql user point of view, nusphere's move is completely amateur
i can't see any intelligent motivation for it, the existence of such a site
will only spread confusion, bad press and discredit Mysql as well as open
source in general , and oh, isn't nusphere's main stream business Open
Source???
can someone from Nusphere explain it here????
the people from microsoft must be really pleased with this stuff
At 01:25 15/07/01, Thomas J Keller wrote:
>Marten Mickos wrote:
> > In response to the posting by Thomas J Keller of Britt Johnston's text, I
> > feel I have to come with the following comments.
> > (The quoted text marked with "> >" is by Britt Johnston)
> > >mysql.org has not been publically announced and it will take
> > >some time for it to become the thriving community it is destined
> > >to be. My hope is that rather than fighting it, you can join it
> > >and be part of an even more vibrant mysql community.
> > We do not oppose communities that form around a common interest in our
> > product. But we do mind if our trademark is used without authorisation. So
> > we are not fighting the community, we are fighting the violations of our
> > rights.
> > Is there any reason for not operating the site under the nusphere.org name
> > or some other name?
>
> Now on this point, in consideration of the assertions of a temporary
> agreement
>which MySQL AB asserts to have formally terminated, NuSphere would appear
>to be
>violating MySQL AB's trademark. Marten's question regarding another name is
>quite proper. Unless NuSphere can provide solid evidence that there is a
>current formal agreement in force at this time, my opinion (humble, not huble,
>or otherwise *grin*) is that NuSphere should post-haste transfer mysql.org to
>MySQL AB. This is a sticky legal point, since both parties would appear
>to have
>differing interpretations of the nature, term and status of any agreement
>between them.
>
> > >It is disappointing that our friends from MySQL AB seem threatened
> > >by the creation of noncommercial site to promote mysql that they
> > >jump in and announce it themselves to the world and claim they
> > >were not informed. The facts are they were informed and invited
> > >to participate, their response is what you have read.
> >
> > The last sentence is untrue. MySQL AB was not invited, nor informed of
> > this. The last record we have that relates to mysql.org is from early June
> > when we asked NuSphere to transfer the domain to us, and Lorne Cooper
> > replied that NuSphere refuses to do so. He also noted that NuSphere had not
> > populated the site.
> > We do not oppose any creation of a concommercial site to promote the MySQL
> > server. But we do mind ... (see my comment above).
>
> Another point where the two parties would appear to have differing
>interpretations of events.
>
> > >You mention specifically that you believe we have no right to the
> > >domain name. The facts are that we believe we have a right under
> > >an agreement that was signed by both Monty and David that provided
> > >us with broad rights to mysql related names. In fact we paid a
> > >significant sum of money for the ability to use those names and
> > >other items and that same agreement in fact required MySQL
> > >to be released under the GPL. Now that MySQL AB has taken on
> > >venture capital funding and hired new management, they want to
> > >ignore those agreements.
> > There WAS an interim agreement from June 2000 to be replaced within 3
> > months by a final agreement. We have confirmed to NuSphere in writing the
> > termination of the interim agreement. It has not been in force for some
> time.
> > For the records, it was only David Axmark who signed it and faxed it to
> > Progress. Progress or NuSphere have never sent us a version with their
> > signatures.
>
> This is in essence the same differing interpretation problem as noted
> above.
>
> > When it was in force, the interim agreement did NOT provide NuSphere with
> > broad rights to use the MySQL name.
> > Under the agreement, Progress paid a total of USD 312,501 with the last
> > check being cut in September 2000. See
> > http://www.mysql.com/news/article-75.html for more information on this.
>
> Well, in the face of radically different interpretations, I see a few
>possible ways to resolve this:
>
>First: take it to court. Potentially expensive, and probably not good for
>public relations for either party.
>
>Second: (and I fully note that there could be any number of valid and
>compelling
>reasons for either or both parties to find this suggestion untenable) post the
>text of the agreement here, for the community to peruse. This suggestion
>carries with it an implicit expectation that the parties would be expected to
>abide by the opinion of the community (assuming an overwhelming majority
>interpret the agreement one way over another).
>
>Third: NuSphere could, in the interests of peace within the community,
>transfer
>the domain name to MySQL AB, and MySQL AB could back off the GPL violation
>issue
>(this presumes that NuSphere brings themselves into compliance with GPL
>immediately). Intent is an important issue here. It is entirely possible
>that
>NuSphere understood their procedures to be in compliance with GPL, and that
>MySQL believes them not to be, with both parties acting in good
>faith. NuSphere
>can confirm their good faith by accepting that their release is
>problematic and
>rectifying the situation immediately. MySQL AB can confirm their good
>faith by
>accepting this gesture and relenting on the GPL licensing issue.
>
> > The comment by Britt on vc funding and new management is under the belt in
> > my opinion.
>
> Perhaps.
>
> > >Your comments about us not participating in any meaninful fashion
> > >in the open source community are disappointing because it means
> > >NuSphere has not done a good job communicating its work, I believe
> > >we provide a significant service and have allowed many people who
> > >otherwise could not use open source software to use it because of
> > >our work on improving windows ports, integration of components,
> > >and major features. We contribute back fixes and improvements to
> > >many open source communities including apache, perl, php and mysql.
> > >Much of that work is available at no cost through downloads at our
> > >website. I'd invite you to download and try NuSphere MySQL and
> > >see an example of what we have done.
> > I would hope the discussion could stay away from topics of this sort. We
> > appreciate and respect many things NuSphere, and Britt personally, have
> done.
>
> I don't know that we can avoid this, Marten. It seems to be a central
>issue. Certain comments made by MySQL AB supporters have many peiople
>believing
>that NuSphere is not a participant in the Open Source community. MySQL AB is,
>of course, not responsible for statements made by others, but those statements
>have become a part of the discussion, and the allegations (or
>implications) must
>be addressed openly.
>
> > >The importance of our investment is reflected in Monty's own words:
> > >"NuSphere has identified a very important technical enhancement
> > >needed to transform MySQL into an enterprise-enabled database capable
> > >of competing with commercial heavyweights," said Michael "Monty"
> > >Widenius, chief technology officer of MySQL AB. "In MySQL's five-year
> > >history, this is the most significant contribution from a source
> > >outside MySQL AB that has ever occurred."
> > MySQL AB is not trying to devalue the investment in Gemini. But there are
> > people who believe that NuSphere or Progress paid MySQL AB $2.5 million and
> > that NuSphere is somehow part of the MySQL server development team, none of
> > which is true. Therefore we have communicated that the development of the
> > MySQL server is done by and funded by MySQL AB alone.
>
> Well, I have seen nothing that implies an investment of that magnitude in
>MySQL. NuSphere has asserted that they have invested to that magnitude in the
>development of their products, which are based upon MySQL. If there are
>people
>who have misinterpreted that, NuSphere is no more responsible for that
>misinterpretation that MySQL AB is for the assertions made by their supporters
>regarding NuSphere's level of participation in the Open Source community.
>
> > >We also support the community by sponsoring and helping organize
> > >events such as the OSCON 2001 with O'Reilly, Open Source Database
> > >Summit with OSDN, and the Linux Legacy through Geek Cruises to name
> > >a few. We are proud of the significant investment we make in these
> > >areas so that the open source community can meet and learn from each
> > >other face to face.
> > This is fine, and nobody wants to take that pride away from NuSphere.
> > However, from our perspective this is not related to the topic discussed
> > here now.
>
> Again, Marten, since many of the participants in this forum clearly
> believe
>that NuSphere is NOT a participant in the Open Source community, I think I
>must
>respectfully disagree with you. This is relevant.
>
> > >As we said last January, we planned on Gemini being released
> > >under an open source license as part of the launch of MySQL 4.0,
> > >but that release has not shipped so we have decided to release
> > >the source through mysql.org instead soon after its launch (the
> > >community needs to setup CVS to support that effort). Note that
> > >Gemini has both commercial and open source licenses just like
> > >MySQL itself and the products we are currently shipping are
> > >provided with a commercial license of Gemini. We absolutely
> > >believe we have the right to do this.
> > Regarding the GPL violation we state the following: NuSphere is and has
> > been shipping a product that includes the MySQL server under GPL and the
> > Gemini component, with the Gemini component statically linked to the MySQL
> > server. The source code of Gemini or a written offer to provide it is not
> > included in the package, wherefore this constitutes a violation of GPL.
> > It would have been very easy not to violate the GPL by adding the Gemini
> > source to the package. But NuSphere did not do that, and, excuse my
> > language, any explanation is just a bad excuse in my opinion.
>
> I believe I addressed this previously.
>
> > >In closing, I hope you will take a moment to see things from our
> > >perspective and understand that we want a strong mysql community
> > >as strong as apache or php and one that is not controlled by a
> > >single commercial company.
> > We at MySQL AB do not dream of controlling the MySQL community. For
> > instance, we do not require registration by those who download our
> > products. In stead we take every effort to support the community and make
> > superior products available to them. Thereafter it is up to each individual
> > user to decide what community (or communities) he or she wishes to belong
> > to. I think numbers speak for themselves. There are more than 2 million
> > MySQL users in the world, and that is much more than we have on our mailing
> > lists or in our customer databases.
>
> Agreed, Marten.
>
> > And finally let us not forget that the community we have today has been
> > built up over many years by not only MySQL AB but by numerous other groups
> > and companies who have silently or officially, and often with no financing,
> > contributed in many different ways and without violating trademark or other
> > rights. These heroes should always be remembered when we talk about the
> > success of MySQL.
>
> Absolutely! But let us also ensure that the positive contributions made by
>NuSphere are not demeaned or discounted through ignorance or mistaken
>interpretations.
>
>
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