Hi Max, No it wasn't thought of as me tv, at least I never heard that expression used. It would have made more sense with CuSeeMe, but that's not flash.
Best, Alan - On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 8:39 AM Max Herman via NetBehaviour < netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote: > Hi all, > > I've lost track of how or whether face is discussed in Alan's first post > on this. It was evoked for me by his post on his Meta incorporation > concept from 1972 (?), in the "TV ME" aspect. I have wondered whether > flash video streaming was once thought of as "Me TV," which would have been > too clear, straightforward, and first-person, then therefore changed to > "You" and "conduit that rhymes with too." The latter is more of a removal > of agency with a promise to restore it back. Similarly, does the social > media company under criticism lately not acquire the user's face, so to > speak, then offer to sell it back? I know this sounds absurd but maybe > it's been articulated better elsewhere. The brand name seems probably to > have started off as "yearbook," as in the paper book students sign for each > other at the end of a high school year, but changed to remove the element > of time. > > Of course, names of brands are not determinative but to what extent are > they strategically chosen? In either case, the question of selling a > person's face back to them after you have acquired it somehow remains; and > if there is a pattern what else could be in the process of being similarly > acquired then sold back? This could also be overstating the case on my > part, a kind of commercial phobia, not sure. > > All best, > > Max > > ------------------------------ > *From:* NetBehaviour <netbehaviour-boun...@lists.netbehaviour.org> on > behalf of Max Herman via NetBehaviour <netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org > > > *Sent:* Friday, October 29, 2021 11:50 AM > *To:* netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org < > netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> > *Cc:* Max Herman <maxnmher...@hotmail.com>; Anthony Stephenson < > aps0l...@gmail.com> > *Subject:* Re: [NetBehaviour] Ontological Banding > > > Hi Anthony, > > That is a very interesting idea from Heydenreich, who I've never read and > don't really know anything about though the name sounds familiar. I did > read somewhere that Leonardo's Arno Valley is sometimes considered the > first true landscape, but I am too uneducated in art history to know if > that holds true. It would jibe with what I think I know of Leonardo, and I > do know that he dated that sketch very prominently as in "I drew this > sketch of the Arno Valley on October 27, 1481, signed, Leonardo da Vinci" > or something like that which is atypical for him (and a little > blockchainesque in that he used the "notarial" vocabulary of his father and > grandfather who were notaries i.e. writers of official contracts). One of > my goals is to understand better if that sketch does qualify as the first > landscape, because if it does it means a lot to how I would understand > Leonardo. I'll have to look up Heydenreich; one of the most interesting > present-day scholars of Leonardo I've found is Joost Keizer of Groningen > University. He focuses a lot on Leonardo's use of word, text, and > allegory, seeing a lot of very modern (as opposed to proto-modern) themes > and structures. I can't say if Keizer is 100% correct or not on all points > -- who ever is -- but his assertions are definitely interesting. > > The idea of face as landscape is also super interesting. I would be very > curious to know if Deleuze wrote about the ML in particular, but that idea > is very prominent in the Leonardiana (i.e. that the person > mirrors/echoes/reflects the rock and water landscape) which is a funny word > that means "writings about Leonardo." > > Re this idea of face and landscape, it resonates with the interesting > "Uninvited" project announced by Furtherfield as well as the rather > dystopian morphisms of certain social media conglomerates in the news. > Perhaps another correlation could be found between the "spirit of the > tree," a kind of identity or perceptual counterpart, and the setting of > Finsbury Park in the "Based on a Tree Story" project? > > I tend to range far too much on such comparisons but sometimes they are > interesting or echo patterns that seem possibly relevant. In the > relatively cold climate I live in the leaves are all changing drastically > this week and a couple of days of rain have brought a huge number to earth > which are not yet raked up. Tomorrow will be a mass festival of raking > around hundreds of thousands of yards in silent synchrony. I don't know > why I like looking at these leaves around my block, in a sunny day after > the rain yesterday, maybe because they are unusual colors? My cat for > example climbed on a neighbor's fence right next to a shrub with bright red > leaves which was nice. I don't see a face in these trees per se but I do > see a kind of friend, something I'm glad to see again, something that means > something, and maybe I like that it is non-digital and non-electronic to > remind me that I and perhaps all life are also partly that? > > There could be a relation between the "intelligence" that imagines or > images the environment and what that environment becomes, but also vice > versa which Leonardo recommended very vociferously in quotations like: > > "Though human ingenuity may make various inventions which, by the help of > various machines answering the same end, it will never devise any > inventions more beautiful, nor more simple, nor more to the purpose than > Nature does; because in her inventions nothing is wanting, and nothing is > superfluous, and she needs no counterpoise when she makes limbs proper for > motion in the bodies of animals. But she puts into them the soul of the > body, which forms them that is the soul of the mother which first > constructs in the womb the form of the man and in due time awakens the soul > that is to inhabit it." > > I'm also trying to learn about how Renaissance (or "early modern") poetry > including Dante related the face to the overall inner being, often using > the metaphor of a balcony, situating the former as a venue transmitting > both the individual and the general universal or environmental properties > of the latter. But it's very slow going and still no more than a hobby. > > All best, > > Max > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* NetBehaviour <netbehaviour-boun...@lists.netbehaviour.org> on > behalf of Anthony Stephenson via NetBehaviour < > netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> > *Sent:* Friday, October 29, 2021 10:23 AM > *To:* netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org < > netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> > *Cc:* Anthony Stephenson <aps0l...@gmail.com> > *Subject:* Re: [NetBehaviour] Ontological Banding > > Hello Max, > Your continuing investigation into La Giocondo made me break open my > only book on Leonardo. An interesting aside is something Ludwig > Heydenreich once pointed out that Leonardo's sketch of the Arno valley > (https://fineartamerica.com/featured/arno-landscape-leonardo-da-vinci.html > ) > is "The first true landscape in art." But as far as ATP is concerned, > you might want to check out the chapter (plateau) on faciality: '... > the face has a correlate of great importance: the landscape, which is > not just a milieu but a deterritorialized world. There are a number of > face-landscape correlations, > on this "higher" level. ... Painting takes up the same movement but > also reverses it, positioning a landscape as a face, treating one like > the other ...' > -- > Anthony Stephenson > http://anthonystephenson.org/ > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > -- *=====================================================* *directory http://www.alansondheim.org <http://www.alansondheim.org> tel 347-383-8552**email sondheim ut panix.com <http://panix.com>, sondheim ut gmail.com <http://gmail.com>* *=====================================================*
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