I'm surprised empyre was grief. So long as you stick to the monthly theme (it is a strictly thematic discussion list, not a general discussion list, and is moderated to ensure there are no announcements or off topic posts) it is a very generous community, in my experience. Melissa started it with excellent intentions and they have remained at its core.
best Simon On 9 Sep 2011, at 17:50, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > > I had real trouble on empyre and went quiet; I was one of the guests at one > point and was attacked by one of the moderators during the period. So I'm not > very partial to it. Syndicate was only announcement at the end, far more > interesting earlier as was 7-11 etc. The Cybermind list I run has been going > for 18 years strong, as has been wryting-l which was originally > fiction-of-philosophy. Depends on the list. - Alan > > On Fri, 9 Sep 2011, Ana Vald?s wrote: > >> I remember I was subscribed to Syndicate as well but I never heard about NN >> and never participated, I felt Syndicate was more a list for announcements >> of events, maybe I only subscribed to the events list. >> But it's interesting to discuss the validity of the mailinglists today, as >> forums for discussion or for sharing information. >> I have been participating in the Australian list -empyre for many years and >> now I feel the list is slowly dissapearing. Some of you (Patrick Lichty was >> a briljant moderator for some month's ago) are members of -empyre too. Do >> you feel the same as me? It's not strange, the list has been on the net for >> ages and the moderators do a terrific job but the most of people are >> freelancing artists or teachers with very little time to spare... >> I tried today to reach their arrchives and the links were broken. >> It would be a real loss if -empyre is gone. >> Ana >> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:54 PM, marc garrett <marc.garr...@furtherfield.org> >> wrote: >> Hi Ana, >> >> Thanks for the link to 'Doctress Neutopia', very interesting... >> >> Yes - I remember on the (once brilliant) Syndicate list years >> ago, where >> Netochka Nezvanova, N.N., antiorp, integer dominated, causing >> all kinds >> of upset... >> >> "The net entity nn (Netochka Nezvanova, integer, antiorp, etc.), >> a >> pseudonym used by an international group of artists and >> programmers in >> their extensive and aggressive mailing list-based >> online-performances and >> for other art projects, had been subscribed to the Syndicate >> list in 1997. >> It was, as the first of less than a handful of people ever, >> unsubscribed >> against its will because it was spamming the list so heavily >> that all >> meaningful communication was blocked. In January 2001, nn sent >> an e-mail >> asking to again be subscribed to the Syndicate mailing list. >> (What nn >> never bothered to realise was that subscription to the list had >> always >> been open so that, at any point, it could have subscribed itself >> - we have >> always wondered why Majordomo is such a blind spot in this >> technophile >> entity's arsenal.) After getting assurances from nn that she was >> not out >> to misuse the list, we subscribed it to the Syndicate list. >> >> Naively, as we had to realise. nn went from one or two messages >> every day >> in February to an average of three to five message in April and >> up to >> eight and ten messages per day in May and June - and that on a >> list which >> had a regular daily traffic of three to five messages a day. The >> distributed nature of the nn collective makes it possible for >> them to keep >> posting 24 hours a day - great for promoting your online >> presence, >> irritating for people who have a less frantic life rhythm. nn's >> messages >> are always cryptic, sometimes amusing, often tediously >> repetitive in their >> quirky rhetorics and style, and generally irritating for the >> majority of >> people. Its activity on the Syndicate - like on many other lists >> it has >> used and terrorised - soon came to look like a hijack. But the >> sheer mass >> of traffic nn was generating, the sheer amount of nn's presence, >> was >> overwhelming. Perhaps this phenomenon could be compared to >> SMEGL, short >> for super mental grid lock, a term that was developed to >> describe traffic >> jam situations in NYC back in the eighties (or was this term >> coined in >> Berlin-Kreuzberg's famous Fischbuero? Who knows, the boundaries >> get >> blurred...). >> >> In the spring of 2001, nn's and other people's activities who >> use open, >> unmoderated mailing lists for promulgating their >> self-promotional e-mails, >> triggered discussions about 'spam art', on Syndicate as well as >> on other >> lists. Actually, given the extreme openness and vulnerability of >> a >> structure like the Syndicate it remains quite astonishing that >> this >> structure survived for such a long time. What happened in the >> course of >> 2000/2001 (not only to Syndicate, but also to several other >> mailing lists) >> was that the openness of these lists, i.e. the fact that they >> were >> unmoderated, was massively abused, and, finally, destroyed, by >> relentless >> 'creative' spamming. One of the basic principles of the Internet >> - its >> openness - suddenly seemed to become a mere tool for attacking >> this very >> principle. 'Netiquette' did not seem to be of much value anymore >> and was >> sacrificed for the egotistical self-expression of (distributed) >> artist >> egos. The irony of this process is that, like any good parasite, >> this >> artistic practice depends on the existence of lively online >> communities: >> it not only bites, but kills the hand that feeds it. - These >> parasite >> nomads will find new hosts, no doubt, but they have over the >> past year >> helped to erode the social fabric of the wider net cultural >> population so >> much that communities have to protect themselves from attacks >> and hijacks >> more aggressively than before. Their adolescent carelessness is >> partly >> responsible for the withering of the romantic utopia of a >> completely open, >> sociable online environment. However educational that may be, we >> despise >> the deliberation with which these people act. >> >> nn got unsubscribed from the Syndicate without warning on a day >> when there >> had been nothing but ten messages from her. After some days of >> silence and >> sighs of relief, angry protests by nn came through. On the list, >> accusations of censorship and/or dictatorship were made. A small >> but noisy >> faction denounced unsubscribing nn as an act against the freedom >> of >> speech. They called the administrators fascists, murderers, and >> 'threatened' to report the case to 'Index on Censorship'. While >> some other >> list members welcomed the departure of nn on and off the list >> and the >> admin team again and again explained their move, the ludicrous >> allegations >> and vociferous insults continued. >> >> The real shock for us was that the majority of list subscribers >> did not >> participate in the discussion and thus silently seemed to accept >> what was >> going on. It was personally hurtful not to receive more support >> against >> the insults raised against us, but more frustrating was the >> indifference >> that made the whole process possible. Within few days, the >> alienation from >> the atmosphere on the list was so great that we admitted defeat, >> re-subscribed nn and began to withdraw from the Syndicate. The >> list was >> moved to a different server and is now administered by other >> people at >> anart.no/~syndicate. We wanted to avoid further verbiage and >> conflict and >> therefore gave up the name, but we insist that from our >> perspective the >> Syndicate project that was founded in 1996 ended in August 2001. >> What >> remains under its name is a zombie kept alive by misconceptions >> about what >> the Syndicate really was. Maybe we should have stopped the >> project >> altogether in the summer? >> >> Filtering has, in a way, done us in. Before there were effective >> e-mail >> clients that could filter out lists and other mail >> communication, >> everybody on the list got everything more or less instantly, >> which also >> meant a higher level of social awareness and social control of >> what goes >> on on the list. Today, many people filter the lists they >> subscribe to and >> only look at the postings at irregular intervals - some >> mailboxes don't >> get opened for months. Like this, people consume the list >> passively and do >> not even notice a fiasco like the one that we experienced on the >> Syndicate >> list in the summer. I guess that some people who remain >> subscribed to the >> Syndicate list still have not noticed that anything has changed. >> For a >> social community, that kind of behaviour - automated deferance - >> can be >> fatal." >> >> <nettime> Rise and Decline of the Syndicate >> http://www.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-0111/msg00077.html >> >> wishing all well. >> >> marc >>> Interesting, it reminds me about doctress Neutopia, >>> >> http://projectwhitehouse.wordpress.com/democrats/libby-hubbard-aka-doctress >> -neutopia-free-the-slaves >>> a selfnamed prophet and the founder of a new religion at the >> beginning of the Net, around 1995. >>> She terrorized many online communities and was expelled from many >> forums. >>> Ana >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 3:25 PM, marc garrett >> <marc.garr...@furtherfield.org> wrote: >>> >>> Netochka Nezvanova. >>> >>> One of the most famous and infamous EccentricCharacters in >>> turn?of?the?21st Century Western artistic NetworkCulture, Netochka >>> Nezvanova (aka N.N., antiorp, integer, Irena Sabine Czubera) >> remains an >>> enigma to many. Widely believed to be an IdentityCollective?, >> Netochka >>> Nezvanova is a PenName named after the title character in [an >> early >>> unfinished Fyodor Dostoevsky novel] whose name means "nameless >> nobody" >>> in Russian. The identity always presents itself as female, >> though >> it may >>> not be in reality. Despite the meaning of her moniker, N.N. has >> coveted >>> attention and recognition like few others on the Internet. >>> >>> http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/NetochkaNezvanova >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> http://www.twitter.com/caravia15852 >>> http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ >>> http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia >>> http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/ >>> http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/ >>> http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/ >>> http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 >>> http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/ >>> >>> mobil/cell +4670-3213370 >>> >>> >>> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth >> with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you >> will always long to return. >>> ? Leonardo da Vinci >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> -- >> http://www.twitter.com/caravia15852 >> http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ >> http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia >> http://www.scoop.it/t/gender-issues/ >> http://www.scoop.it/t/literary-exiles/ >> http://www.scoop.it/t/museums-and-ethics/ >> http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 >> http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/ >> mobil/cell +4670-3213370 >> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your >> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long >> to return. >> ? Leonardo da Vinci >> > > == > eyebeam: http://eyebeam.org/blogs/alansondheim/ > email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ > web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 347-383-8552 > music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ > current text http://www.alansondheim.org/re.txt > ==_______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour Simon Biggs | si...@littlepig.org.uk | www.littlepig.org.uk s.bi...@ed.ac.uk | Edinburgh College of Art | University of Edinburgh www.eca.ac.uk/circle | www.elmcip.net | www.movingtargets.co.uk Simon Biggs | si...@littlepig.org.uk | www.littlepig.org.uk s.bi...@ed.ac.uk | Edinburgh College of Art | University of Edinburgh www.eca.ac.uk/circle | www.elmcip.net | www.movingtargets.co.uk _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
