It is an issue when you treat it as a matter of blame and justification for forks and whatnot. I'm 95% sure this is just an oversight on ZynAddSubFX's part (personally, I used ImageMagick to rescale the icon once forgot about it). Should all software have special code to deal with 32x32 pixel icons which are actually 800x800 pixels? I dunno. Seems debatable to me.
On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:57 PM Filipe Coelho <[email protected]> wrote: > If there is, I dont recall at the moment. > > I remember seeing the issue on zynaddsubfx and went just to fix it without > checking how many others had it. > > It might be worth fixing just so it does not happen again. It is a large > icon on zyn side yes, but scaling it should not be an issue either. > > On 04/01/21 01:52, J. Liles wrote: > > I'll see about unblocking you. I had to report your behavior to github > after you posted some particularly offensive remarks on the issue tracker. > > The icon size thing is a ZynAddSubFX bug AFIAK. I've not encountered > another client that had a stupidly large icon like that. Are there others? > > On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:50 PM Filipe Coelho <[email protected]> wrote: > >> So actions do speak louder than words. >> >> I wanted to submit back some changes, but am somehow blocked from >> participating on the github project completely, so a PR fails. >> >> Would be nice to get along. >> >> I went ahead with an alternative account to submit the first change. >> See it at https://github.com/original-male/non/pull/294 >> >> Should be pretty straight forward. >> It adds a new icon size possible for the GUI icons, and sets resolution >> of the GUI icon so that FLTK/NTK can take care to scale it nicely. >> Before a few icons would appear incorrectly or not at all. >> >> Thanks >> On 04/01/21 00:28, Filipe Coelho wrote: >> >> On 03/01/21 23:58, J. Liles wrote: >> >> Too much to respond to here. I really find your messages confusing >> Fillipe, because again there's such a stark difference between your actions >> and your words. >> >> I am sorry for that, I dont mean it. Looking at one-self is sometimes the >> hardest. >> >> >> I believe that part of the problem may be that you are reading some kind >> of emotional/constitutional subtext into simple factual statements like "X >> is out of the scope of this project and furthermore X can be implemented >> easily as a separate client/script/whatever than there is therefore no need >> for X to be incorporated into the project." To me, this is a factual >> statement about technological realities, informed by Unix philosophy and >> general logic. To you, it seems, this is being interpreted as "Male is mean >> and hates me and refuses to listen to reason." >> >> If you call people names and insult them, that is enough for me to think >> you are completely opposed to an idea. >> I do not have access to the github tickets, so cant quote from them. But >> here is from an email you sent last year: >> >> > You're cowards without the balls to contribute back to a project that >> benefited you greatly. You should be ashamed of yourselves. With friends >> like these, who needs enemies? Were you hoping that I died from the virus, >> you fucking bastards? >> >> This is not a one-off thing, abuse was common-place everytime we >> suggested anything you deemed a bit more exotic. >> >> >> That is a synthetic example, but I'll take a real one from your message >> below: >> >> Why would I make my application dependent on NSM? >> I want my applications to be cross-platform, and work for everyone, >> something you are against. >> (At least it is what I understand from >> https://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/FAQ, forgive me if I am making the wrong >> assumption here) >> >> Here is the text you're referring to: >> Why don't you provide OS X or Windows binaries? >> >> Unlike, ahem, some other DAW projects, the direction of Non is not driven >> by financial interests. Time and money spent aquiring[sic] the special >> hardware and software to develop on closed platforms would, in my humble >> opinion, be better spent on actually developing Non. >> >> You interpreted this statement as "male is against software being cross >> platform and working for everyone." This is of course completely false. The >> reality is that male doesn't run Mac OS or Windows and it would literally >> be insane for him to spend thousands of dollars of his own time and money >> to acquire a Mac or Windows machine and develop ports for them. If someone >> else runs Mac OS or Windows and wants to port my software there, test it, >> and send me patches, I would be happy to apply them. But to insist that I >> support platforms I do not myself use or have access to is to make an >> unreasonable demand of me. Can you see the truth in what I'm saying? Is >> this a cultural/language barrier thing? If I called you a meanie for not >> porting Carla to the Amiga for me, would you feel I was being reasonable? >> >> Well, if you read what I wrote more clearly, you would see the context. >> >> You wrote: >> > Until I see ... [your] GUI renamed to something else and made dependent >> on NSM rather than attempting to supplant it >> >> I commented that this is not possible for Carla, because you do not have >> interest for cross-platform but I do. >> So I cannot make Carla dependent on NSM because of that. >> >> >> But nevertheless, if you want to bury the hatchet and cooperate, I'm all >> for it. If there are patches to make NSMD work on Windows or Mac (although >> I can't see why it wouldn't already work) then send 'em on over. If there >> are patches to document or improve the GUI API, send those too. If you have >> suggestions for how NSM could be packaged in a way that distros would >> accept in order that you could use it as a dependency, well I'm all ears >> man! A little help would be very much welcome. >> >> I can go through the changes made in the new repo and submit PRs, but I >> am lacking in time due to 15 of January being tagged as "release day" and >> still having a few things not quite ready. >> >> Let's start with something small. Which I just tried, but pull request >> fails. Did you block me? >> >> See >> https://github.com/original-male/non/compare/master...falkTX:imported-fixes-pt1?expand=1 >> and you can do the PR yourself. >> >> Is this a good first step? >> >> >> But if you come at me with some kitchen sink/bloat stuff, don't be >> surprised if I ask for some justification (i.e. "there is literally no >> better way to do this than to add it to NSM"). That is not unreasonable. >> That is not done out of ill-will. It is simply done out of a detached, >> professional interest in maintaining quality and suitability. >> >> That is quite reasonable, and I am all for it. >> >> The main thing we keep asking is to stop the personal attacks and >> occasional verbal abuse. >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 3:25 PM Filipe Coelho <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On 03/01/21 22:34, J. Liles wrote: >>> >>> Fillipe, you keep saying this "we the community" stuff. Who elected you >>> as the spokesperson for the community? That's part of your problem. You >>> think you're the self appointed king/dictator of Linux audio. >>> >>> I am not speaking for the community, nor I am leading anything. I am >>> rather bad at this. >>> >>> When I wrote in my mail here about the "we community" I speak about what >>> I know of all the conversations on IRC, email and forum threads. >>> So by community, I have to speak about the still sorta minority of >>> developers that still care about standalones and session management. >>> We all came into an agreement after seeing some of your reactions prior >>> to the fork and reveal. >>> >>> I am just the one talking here because the others are all tired of all >>> this drama, and just gave up trying to reason with you. >>> >>> >>> Did it ever occur to you that perhaps it is *you* who are difficult to >>> deal with? >>> >>> Yes, I know this from experience that I can be very hard to work with. >>> Tend to be perfectionist, and caring about all the little details, often >>> too negative. >>> Often caring about the little details more than the bigger ones. >>> >>> It is something I am trying to improve. >>> >>> Maybe for you, try to be less accusatory? >>> >>> >>> There are many ways that *I* can think of that any reasonable, technical >>> goals of yours, mine and anyone else's regarding NSM could be resolved. But >>> please keep a little perspective here. >>> >>> Sure, and disagreement is expected. >>> >>> >>> You were not smart enough to invent NSM, and yet you think you're smart >>> enough to improve when the person who was smart enough to invent it >>> disagrees with your "approach". >>> >>> You were smart to invest NSM and had time dedicate for it, I am grateful >>> for that, thank you. >>> >>> Please be reasonable as well. >>> I did not invest LASH, or LADISH, or JACK, or Qt, or many other things. >>> I dont see how that is an argument for anything.. >>> >>> NSM as in protocol, does not really need change. jackpatch has a >>> user-experience problem, but that might be unrelated to NSM itself. >>> >>> The things I would like to improve are in regards of user experience, >>> the protocol can stay intact. >>> But please understand, when you ignore or even attack back request to >>> make the experience better for new users, how are we supposed to act? >>> >>> Nils went a step ahead and started his own GUI, yet you attack him by >>> not having contributing nothing of value. >>> So we are useless because we do not send patches for behaviour you >>> clearly do not want (like an export option in the SM GUI), and yet if we go >>> to do our thing while still respecting the NSM protocol we are still >>> treated like shit. >>> How does that many any sense?? >>> >>> (I would love to link to the issue/discussion in question here regarding >>> export option, but you removed github tickets) >>> >>> >>> I say your approach, but all you and your gang ever really came to me >>> with were demands that I implement things I have no and see no use for. If >>> you had a little skill in communication and a little humility and a less >>> blatant desire to bring everything good and valuable in Linux audio under >>> your anime umbrella, then you could have easily gotten anything reasonable >>> that you wanted. Reasonable being the key word here. You can't go around >>> demanding people work for free to implement your poorly thought out and >>> unjustified whims. >>> >>> An export/import option is not unreasonable, in my opinion (and several >>> others on the same github topic too). >>> >>> You do not have a use for it, okay. So what is so bad if someone else >>> tries to do it? >>> When we open an issue/ticket on github, it is not with the expectation >>> that you do everything. >>> Sometimes tickets are just places for discussion. >>> >>> Github tickets are not demands. >>> >>> >>> You have publicly slandered me, you have called my software malware, >>> etc. so don't pretend to be so innocent. >>> >>> I do not recall ever saying such things, but I apologize. I did not mean >>> those things, and clearly do not think that. >>> >>> Why would I willingly be packaging and using malware myself? That doesnt >>> make sense.. >>> >>> Again, I am sorry, I do not mean or meant to offend you in any way. >>> Maybe some rushed comment when conversation got heated? >>> In any case, I apologize for that. >>> >>> >>> You call my remarks "weird", and yet you're the one who names all his >>> programs after women (is that not "weird"?) >>> >>> Oh that haha. >>> >>> I guess it is just a little bias here. The reason for the C names is >>> just a cheap idea copy of G*, K*, Q* names that other applications use. >>> Me being 11=12 years younger when I gave those names thought it would be >>> funny to have a suite of tools starting with C, because it seems similar to >>> Q for the use of the Qt toolkit. >>> >>> I am not a native english speaker, coming up with good names is hard for >>> me. >>> So to remove bias, here are some other projects created by me that do >>> not have such names. >>> >>> https://github.com/falkTX/Chibi (has C name, but not related to a >>> girl/woman) >>> https://github.com/falkTX/JackAss >>> https://github.com/falkTX/Hylia >>> https://github.com/falkTX/FluidPlug >>> https://github.com/falkTX/nooice >>> https://github.com/falkTX/los (fork of existing project, play-on-words >>> alike libre/openoffice) >>> https://github.com/DISTRHO/DPF >>> https://github.com/DISTRHO/DISTRHO-Ports >>> https://github.com/DISTRHO/DIE-Plugins >>> https://github.com/DISTRHO/Kars >>> https://github.com/DISTRHO/ProM >>> >>> So perhaps there are more projects made without the C woman than you >>> realize. :) >>> >>> >>> Again, you can say whatever lies you want, but the proof of the pudding >>> is in the eating. >>> >>> Please tell me any more "lies" you see. I like to be transparent, I am >>> trying to answer in truth to anything you might deem as a lie here. >>> >>> Other might see here it is actually the other way around. >>> >>> >>> Until I see patches for NSM, documentation patches documenting the GUI >>> API and your (python or whatever) GUI renamed to something else and made >>> dependent on NSM rather than attempting to supplant it, then I and everyone >>> else will know what the truth of the matter really is and just how empty >>> your words are. >>> >>> Why would I make my application dependent on NSM? >>> I want my applications to be cross-platform, and work for everyone, >>> something you are against. >>> (At least it is what I understand from >>> https://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/FAQ, forgive me if I am making the wrong >>> assumption here) >>> >>> Carla does not intend to supplant anything, at maximum we could say >>> making jack-rack obsolete. >>> I do not see a need to change the name, but it is not totally out of the >>> question. >>> If you promise to be nicer back to me, I am willing to make that rename >>> without a second though. Do you have any suggestions for a name? (and >>> please be civil) >>> >>> Also, not sure why you ask me personally to submit patches, when you >>> initially mentioned me as speaking for the "community". >>> So shouldnt the community be the one submitting patches? >>> >>> There are a few things that Nils submitted, as seen in >>> https://github.com/original-male/non/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3Adiovudau >>> I did a few changes/fixes on the new-session-manager repo, as I felt >>> welcome there and that I could actually make a change. >>> See >>> https://github.com/linuxaudio/new-session-manager/commits?author=falktx >>> for the list, it is not much, but it is also not nothing. >>> Should I submit these back to the NON repo? Will they be accepted them >>> without me being shouted at? >>> >>> >>> Should I just accept every dumb idea and half-assed patch without >>> question? Is asking someone to explain themselves the action of a tyrant? >>> Come on. >>> >>> You are fine to refuse any changes of course, but also please understand >>> that if many changes get rejected, devs will start considering a fork as a >>> necessity. >>> >>> >>> You're just trying to capitalize on the fact that I don't show my boyish >>> face on a github avatar or at LAC and can therefore be painted as inhuman. >>> >>> Who cares about the avatar? I do not like my own face, it is just there >>> because I am too lazy now to change. >>> I looks "boyish" I guess because it is just an old pic, I do not like to >>> take pictures so those I have are usually old. >>> >>> You surely are human, your nickname is even original-male on github, >>> dont know where that nonsense comes from. >>> Dont hate yourself, or myself please. I am trying to be as peaceful and >>> nice here as I can, to a point where I am really not sure what else to do. >>> It is sad that I feel the need to write "please be civil" to every single >>> comment that I know can provide a "gotcha" reply. >>> >>> Let's all be friendly please? >>> >>> >>> The most disgusting thing about the whole affair is that you pretend to >>> be friendly. I don't need friends like you, Fillipe. I'd rather surround >>> myself with vipers. >>> >>> And I am sorry you feel that way. >>> >>> There are absolutely no hard feelings from my side, hope there is a way >>> to make it that from your side too. >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 1:38 PM Filipe Coelho <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2021-01-03 20:21, J. Liles wrote: >>>> >>>> Actions speak louder than words, Fillipe. >>>> >>>> Well yes, I am totally with you on that. >>>> >>>> In acts of rage we do thinks that we later regret. 2020 has been a >>>> lousy year for most people. >>>> >>>> >>>> If you really had honor, skill, gratitude, and goodwill, then you would >>>> contribute back to the project which you have benefited from, rather than >>>> attempting to co-opt it in order to win the empty accolades of Linux Audio >>>> Conference attendees and pad your resume with the accomplishments of >>>> others. >>>> >>>> I really do not appreciate the personal attacks, I thought we were past >>>> this. >>>> >>>> But since you mention it, I can see where you come from with some of >>>> these, but feel it is totally misguided. >>>> I have not put any non-personal projects on my own CV, you can see it >>>> for yourself at https://falktx.com/#cv >>>> And you can even see the commit history for the CV >>>> https://github.com/falkTX/falktx-web/commits/master/cv >>>> >>>> I did take over the JACK project a bit too early, while I was still too >>>> deep with some life issues and between jobs, I feel guilty of that. >>>> It took way too long from taking JACK to actually make a proper >>>> release, and then come true to the promises to revive the win/mac >>>> situation. >>>> I have purposefully reduced my working hours just to have some time to >>>> dedicate per week to open-source projects. Now even at only 3 days per >>>> week. >>>> >>>> So forgive me if I feel a little bit personally attacked here. I never >>>> called you names or said swear words to you. >>>> >>>> You know very well that we tried to have co-operation with you in the >>>> NSM project. But all we got was friction, sometimes even verbal abuse. >>>> Maybe that is just how you think it should be done, but most of the >>>> community does not think the same way. >>>> There was more than 1 developer that intentionally did not implement >>>> NSM support because they saw how hard it was to get anything done and >>>> pushed for in NSM. >>>> >>>> I tried to remain neutral all this time, promoting NSM all I could. >>>> The KXStudio repositories had NSM stuff up to date as much as possible, >>>> I implemented NSM in my own tools and promoted it as well within >>>> developers. >>>> As an example, in the Sonoj 2019 talk about JACK, I publicly mention >>>> that we need to push for NSM >>>> >>>> https://media.ccc.de/v/sonoj2019-1902-jack-past-present-future >>>> >>>> >>>> The only reason you didn't change the name of NSM to a pandering sexy >>>> feminine name is that you wanted to keep the acronym intact to maximize the >>>> disruptive effect on me and my community of users and thwart efforts to get >>>> NSM included in Debian. >>>> >>>> Ignoring the weird remarks about sexism.. it is obvious why the NSM >>>> name was kept. >>>> Because we, in the community, truly believe in NSM to be a good spec >>>> and the way to go forward in regards to session management. >>>> >>>> We want to push it forward and see it used a lot more, there were just >>>> too many issues when dealing with its maintainer, of course you. >>>> Make no mistake, one of the big reasons NON/NSM is not in Debian/Ubuntu >>>> is because of your actions and how you behave(d). >>>> >>>> I do not mean this as any kind of personal attack, just wish you would >>>> be able to see this really. >>>> >>>> It is because we, the community, really like NSM and believe in it, >>>> that we went with a fork, as the last resort. >>>> We really appreciate all the work you put on it, and for the rest of >>>> the NON suite too. >>>> But as a maintainer, you were jeopardizing the project with your >>>> behaviour. >>>> >>>> Nils has some relevant things he said not a long while ago, see >>>> https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=21772&p=121745#p121745 >>>> >>>> >>>> People can change though, so if you ever decide to give up this >>>> campaign of deceit and disruption, then I'll happily accept from you any >>>> useful and appropriate patches you care to offer. >>>> >>>> I would say the same, for the first part. >>>> >>>> Some of the things are you saying are misguided, but understandable >>>> that you feel hurt. >>>> We hope you change to drop the personal attacks. >>>> >>>> I am sorry the situation got to this point. >>>> >>>> We love you, and your projects as well, specially NSM. >>>> Really, please take care. >>>> >>>> Wish you all the best. >>>> >>>> Filipe Coelho >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 10:49 AM Filipe Coelho <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2021-01-03 17:56, Richard wrote: >>>>> > On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 15:40:17 +0100 >>>>> > Fredrik Vestermark <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> >> Hi, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I just wanted to reach out with a big thank you to J. Liles for your >>>>> >> hard work on developing Non and publishing it under an open source >>>>> >> license. Thank you to everybody else involved too, of course! >>>>> >> >>>>> >> As a community, we often forget that developing and maintaining free >>>>> >> software costs a lot of time and nerves. If you too feel like a >>>>> >> GitHub star is not enough appreciation for Non, please consider a >>>>> >> donation via PayPal to show some ♥ and support Liles great work: >>>>> >> https://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/Donations >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Best regards and a happy new year, >>>>> >> Fredrik >>>>> > Thank you Frederik for reminding me about the "Donations" page. >>>>> > Thank you too to Aaron Duerksen for making such a complete bug report >>>>> > on that segfault when removing a control. It has annoyed me for ages, >>>>> > most recently yesterday, but I couldn't have done as good a job as >>>>> you >>>>> > in tracking down the issue. >>>>> > And of course, thank you Jonathan for providing us with such a >>>>> capable >>>>> > suite of programs for exploring the worlds of sound processing and >>>>> > making music. I'm an amateur at both, but boy, what fun it is. I look >>>>> > forward to the exciting developments and possible improvements which >>>>> > you may have time to share with us in the near future. >>>>> >>>>> +1 >>>>> >>>>> We all appreciate your efforts, even if there are things we disagree >>>>> with. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. And happy new year to everyone by the way. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
