On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 3:25 PM Filipe Coelho
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 03/01/21 22:34, J. Liles wrote:
Fillipe, you keep saying this "we the community"
stuff. Who elected you as the spokesperson for the
community? That's part of your problem. You think
you're the self appointed king/dictator of Linux audio.
I am not speaking for the community, nor I am leading
anything. I am rather bad at this.
When I wrote in my mail here about the "we community" I
speak about what I know of all the conversations on
IRC, email and forum threads.
So by community, I have to speak about the still sorta
minority of developers that still care about
standalones and session management.
We all came into an agreement after seeing some of your
reactions prior to the fork and reveal.
I am just the one talking here because the others are
all tired of all this drama, and just gave up trying to
reason with you.
Did it ever occur to you that perhaps it is *you* who
are difficult to deal with?
Yes, I know this from experience that I can be very
hard to work with.
Tend to be perfectionist, and caring about all the
little details, often too negative.
Often caring about the little details more than the
bigger ones.
It is something I am trying to improve.
Maybe for you, try to be less accusatory?
There are many ways that *I* can think of that any
reasonable, technical goals of yours, mine and anyone
else's regarding NSM could be resolved. But please
keep a little perspective here.
Sure, and disagreement is expected.
You were not smart enough to invent NSM, and yet you
think you're smart enough to improve when the person
who was smart enough to invent it disagrees with your
"approach".
You were smart to invest NSM and had time dedicate for
it, I am grateful for that, thank you.
Please be reasonable as well.
I did not invest LASH, or LADISH, or JACK, or Qt, or
many other things. I dont see how that is an argument
for anything..
NSM as in protocol, does not really need change.
jackpatch has a user-experience problem, but that might
be unrelated to NSM itself.
The things I would like to improve are in regards of
user experience, the protocol can stay intact.
But please understand, when you ignore or even attack
back request to make the experience better for new
users, how are we supposed to act?
Nils went a step ahead and started his own GUI, yet you
attack him by not having contributing nothing of value.
So we are useless because we do not send patches for
behaviour you clearly do not want (like an export
option in the SM GUI), and yet if we go to do our thing
while still respecting the NSM protocol we are still
treated like shit.
How does that many any sense??
(I would love to link to the issue/discussion in
question here regarding export option, but you removed
github tickets)
I say your approach, but all you and your gang ever
really came to me with were demands that I implement
things I have no and see no use for. If you had a
little skill in communication and a little humility
and a less blatant desire to bring everything good and
valuable in Linux audio under your anime umbrella,
then you could have easily gotten anything reasonable
that you wanted. Reasonable being the key word here.
You can't go around demanding people work for free to
implement your poorly thought out and unjustified whims.
An export/import option is not unreasonable, in my
opinion (and several others on the same github topic too).
You do not have a use for it, okay. So what is so bad
if someone else tries to do it?
When we open an issue/ticket on github, it is not with
the expectation that you do everything.
Sometimes tickets are just places for discussion.
Github tickets are not demands.
You have publicly slandered me, you have called my
software malware, etc. so don't pretend to be so innocent.
I do not recall ever saying such things, but I
apologize. I did not mean those things, and clearly do
not think that.
Why would I willingly be packaging and using malware
myself? That doesnt make sense..
Again, I am sorry, I do not mean or meant to offend you
in any way. Maybe some rushed comment when conversation
got heated?
In any case, I apologize for that.
You call my remarks "weird", and yet you're the one
who names all his programs after women (is that not
"weird"?)
Oh that haha.
I guess it is just a little bias here. The reason for
the C names is just a cheap idea copy of G*, K*, Q*
names that other applications use.
Me being 11=12 years younger when I gave those names
thought it would be funny to have a suite of tools
starting with C, because it seems similar to Q for the
use of the Qt toolkit.
I am not a native english speaker, coming up with good
names is hard for me.
So to remove bias, here are some other projects created
by me that do not have such names.
https://github.com/falkTX/Chibi (has C name, but not
related to a girl/woman)
https://github.com/falkTX/JackAss
https://github.com/falkTX/Hylia
https://github.com/falkTX/FluidPlug
https://github.com/falkTX/nooice
https://github.com/falkTX/los (fork of existing
project, play-on-words alike libre/openoffice)
https://github.com/DISTRHO/DPF
https://github.com/DISTRHO/DISTRHO-Ports
https://github.com/DISTRHO/DIE-Plugins
https://github.com/DISTRHO/Kars
https://github.com/DISTRHO/ProM
So perhaps there are more projects made without the C
woman than you realize. :)
Again, you can say whatever lies you want, but the
proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Please tell me any more "lies" you see. I like to be
transparent, I am trying to answer in truth to anything
you might deem as a lie here.
Other might see here it is actually the other way around.
Until I see patches for NSM, documentation patches
documenting the GUI API and your (python or whatever)
GUI renamed to something else and made dependent on
NSM rather than attempting to supplant it, then I and
everyone else will know what the truth of the matter
really is and just how empty your words are.
Why would I make my application dependent on NSM?
I want my applications to be cross-platform, and work
for everyone, something you are against.
(At least it is what I understand from
https://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/FAQ, forgive me if I am
making the wrong assumption here)
Carla does not intend to supplant anything, at maximum
we could say making jack-rack obsolete.
I do not see a need to change the name, but it is not
totally out of the question.
If you promise to be nicer back to me, I am willing to
make that rename without a second though. Do you have
any suggestions for a name? (and please be civil)
Also, not sure why you ask me personally to submit
patches, when you initially mentioned me as speaking
for the "community".
So shouldnt the community be the one submitting patches?
There are a few things that Nils submitted, as seen in
https://github.com/original-male/non/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3Adiovudau
I did a few changes/fixes on the new-session-manager
repo, as I felt welcome there and that I could actually
make a change.
See
https://github.com/linuxaudio/new-session-manager/commits?author=falktx
for the list, it is not much, but it is also not nothing.
Should I submit these back to the NON repo? Will they
be accepted them without me being shouted at?
Should I just accept every dumb idea and half-assed
patch without question? Is asking someone to explain
themselves the action of a tyrant? Come on.
You are fine to refuse any changes of course, but also
please understand that if many changes get rejected,
devs will start considering a fork as a necessity.
You're just trying to capitalize on the fact that I
don't show my boyish face on a github avatar or at LAC
and can therefore be painted as inhuman.
Who cares about the avatar? I do not like my own face,
it is just there because I am too lazy now to change.
I looks "boyish" I guess because it is just an old pic,
I do not like to take pictures so those I have are
usually old.
You surely are human, your nickname is even
original-male on github, dont know where that nonsense
comes from.
Dont hate yourself, or myself please. I am trying to be
as peaceful and nice here as I can, to a point where I
am really not sure what else to do. It is sad that I
feel the need to write "please be civil" to every
single comment that I know can provide a "gotcha" reply.
Let's all be friendly please?
The most disgusting thing about the whole affair is
that you pretend to be friendly. I don't need friends
like you, Fillipe. I'd rather surround myself with vipers.
And I am sorry you feel that way.
There are absolutely no hard feelings from my side,
hope there is a way to make it that from your side too.
On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 1:38 PM Filipe Coelho
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 2021-01-03 20:21, J. Liles wrote:
Actions speak louder than words, Fillipe.
Well yes, I am totally with you on that.
In acts of rage we do thinks that we later regret.
2020 has been a lousy year for most people.
If you really had honor, skill, gratitude, and
goodwill, then you would contribute back to the
project which you have benefited from, rather
than attempting to co-opt it in order to win the
empty accolades of Linux Audio Conference
attendees and pad your resume with the
accomplishments of others.
I really do not appreciate the personal attacks, I
thought we were past this.
But since you mention it, I can see where you come
from with some of these, but feel it is totally
misguided.
I have not put any non-personal projects on my own
CV, you can see it for yourself at
https://falktx.com/#cv
And you can even see the commit history for the CV
https://github.com/falkTX/falktx-web/commits/master/cv
I did take over the JACK project a bit too early,
while I was still too deep with some life issues
and between jobs, I feel guilty of that.
It took way too long from taking JACK to actually
make a proper release, and then come true to the
promises to revive the win/mac situation.
I have purposefully reduced my working hours just
to have some time to dedicate per week to
open-source projects. Now even at only 3 days per
week.
So forgive me if I feel a little bit personally
attacked here. I never called you names or said
swear words to you.
You know very well that we tried to have
co-operation with you in the NSM project. But all
we got was friction, sometimes even verbal abuse.
Maybe that is just how you think it should be
done, but most of the community does not think the
same way.
There was more than 1 developer that intentionally
did not implement NSM support because they saw how
hard it was to get anything done and pushed for in
NSM.
I tried to remain neutral all this time, promoting
NSM all I could.
The KXStudio repositories had NSM stuff up to date
as much as possible, I implemented NSM in my own
tools and promoted it as well within developers.
As an example, in the Sonoj 2019 talk about JACK,
I publicly mention that we need to push for NSM
https://media.ccc.de/v/sonoj2019-1902-jack-past-present-future
The only reason you didn't change the name of NSM
to a pandering sexy feminine name is that you
wanted to keep the acronym intact to maximize the
disruptive effect on me and my community of users
and thwart efforts to get NSM included in Debian.
Ignoring the weird remarks about sexism.. it is
obvious why the NSM name was kept.
Because we, in the community, truly believe in NSM
to be a good spec and the way to go forward in
regards to session management.
We want to push it forward and see it used a lot
more, there were just too many issues when dealing
with its maintainer, of course you.
Make no mistake, one of the big reasons NON/NSM is
not in Debian/Ubuntu is because of your actions
and how you behave(d).
I do not mean this as any kind of personal attack,
just wish you would be able to see this really.
It is because we, the community, really like NSM
and believe in it, that we went with a fork, as
the last resort.
We really appreciate all the work you put on it,
and for the rest of the NON suite too.
But as a maintainer, you were jeopardizing the
project with your behaviour.
Nils has some relevant things he said not a long
while ago, see
https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=21772&p=121745#p121745
People can change though, so if you ever decide
to give up this campaign of deceit and
disruption, then I'll happily accept from you any
useful and appropriate patches you care to offer.
I would say the same, for the first part.
Some of the things are you saying are misguided,
but understandable that you feel hurt.
We hope you change to drop the personal attacks.
I am sorry the situation got to this point.
We love you, and your projects as well, specially NSM.
Really, please take care.
Wish you all the best.
Filipe Coelho
On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 10:49 AM Filipe Coelho
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 2021-01-03 17:56, Richard wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 15:40:17 +0100
> Fredrik Vestermark
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just wanted to reach out with a big
thank you to J. Liles for your
>> hard work on developing Non and publishing
it under an open source
>> license. Thank you to everybody else
involved too, of course!
>>
>> As a community, we often forget that
developing and maintaining free
>> software costs a lot of time and nerves.
If you too feel like a
>> GitHub star is not enough appreciation for
Non, please consider a
>> donation via PayPal to show some ♥ and
support Liles great work:
>> https://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/Donations
>>
>> Best regards and a happy new year,
>> Fredrik
> Thank you Frederik for reminding me about
the "Donations" page.
> Thank you too to Aaron Duerksen for making
such a complete bug report
> on that segfault when removing a control.
It has annoyed me for ages,
> most recently yesterday, but I couldn't
have done as good a job as you
> in tracking down the issue.
> And of course, thank you Jonathan for
providing us with such a capable
> suite of programs for exploring the worlds
of sound processing and
> making music. I'm an amateur at both, but
boy, what fun it is. I look
> forward to the exciting developments and
possible improvements which
> you may have time to share with us in the
near future.
+1
We all appreciate your efforts, even if there
are things we disagree with.
Thank you. And happy new year to everyone by
the way.
