Regarding Debian: I don't recall ever having dealt with a Debian
packager. I believe Non is already in the distros of every
packager who ever contacted me. Debian is not among them. So
anyone who says that I somehow personally pissed off the Debian
packagers is either lying or talking about some behind the scenes
deal I wasn't party to. I don't know the first thing about what
it really takes to get packaged in Debian, so if someone wants to
offer some help and advice there, that would be great. I know a
lot of users would prefer to just apt-get install than to have to
build something from source.
Grammoboy did contact the Debian packagers, I believe and asked
me some questions to relay the answers to them, but I never dealt
with them directly. This was around the time of the fork when
Grammoboy was trying very hard to advocate for NSM support
everywhere (which I appreciate).
I don't really know what the problem is with Debian, but since
there's so much misinformation going around, I have to assume it
has something to do with that. The last thing Grammoboy relayed
to me was that my use of WAF was the problem, but all of
Drobilla's stuff is in Debian and it uses WAF so that seems like
a pretext to me. Maybe someone who's an expert in Debian policy
knows.
On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 4:05 PM Filipe Coelho <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 03/01/21 23:23, rosea.grammostola wrote:
> One can think, encouraging that someone who forked the
project, sents
> a kind message to this list and I always want to be a
proponent of
> restored relations, but still your message feels a bit
misplaced here
> Filipe. There is no denying.
I am sorry, that was not my intention.
I had no plans to reply unless to correct false information
or personal
attacks.
That was the case though.
(I typically dislike mailing lists.)
> The fact that NSM didn't hit Debian (still not in Debian
afaik), had
> nothing to do with the developer, it was because of NTK and
waf. If
> you guys wanted, it was possible to maintain a version of
NSM without
> NTK (Fltk only). I was helping Nils with it, at that
moment, but
> behind my and I guess our backs you guys where working on a
fork. I
> just became aware of it, when there arrived a message on
the LAA
> mailinglist, while having e-mail contact regularly the same
week with
> Nils.
Why would we contact you in specific?
You always been a protector of Jonathan in every level, even
defending
his verbal abuse, so we thought it would be useless to
involve you.
And it is not that correct that the only issue for
Debian/Ubuntu is NTK.
Jonhathan's past behaviour violates Debian and Ubuntu CoC, so
there is a
whole lot of friction from there too.
> You guys didn't just forked, after telling that you would
be forking
> and discussing it. You did choose for a huge and hidden coup.
>
> Also the fact that you guys call it the community version,
still gives
> me a very bad taste. It's plain newspeak to present a well
thought out
> 'coup', behind the core community, as social.
It is a community version by the real definition of the word,
since now
there is a community behind it rather than a single person.
It was ugly, but as I said in the other thread-chain, it was
a last resort.
> That developer who didn't want to implement NSM was Hermann
from
> Guitarix. I discussed NSM support for Guitarix for more
then 7(!)
> years with him. His argumentation was that NSM should be in
Debian
> first. Fair enough, but to name that as a reason for a fork...
That is the developer *you* know.
Was that all of them?
> With having Argodejo as alternative GUI and a nsmd version
which could
> be used in Debian, you guys had plenty space to hack
around. But you
> did choose to fork also the FLTK original GUI.
The FLTK "legacy" GUI is my "fault".
I tried Argodejo, but personally do not like it that much. I
am not its
target user, I feel.
So I plead to the group to keep the old GUI, that I would do
the work
needed to make it run without NTK.
There were a few side-effects from going from NTK to FLTK,
most of which
I submitted a patch for.
It is actually a nice thing in my view, because now we can
use NSM
without depending on NTK, making compilation and packaging
easier.
Thus, hopefully getting more users to go into NSM.
> I can't conclude otherwise that your plan was to totally
replace
> Non-Session-Manager with New-Session-Manager. Given the
meaning of
> Non-Session-Manager for Linuxaudio and the contribution by
it's
> developer, this still feels completely wrong. Especially
the way you
> did it. So your message feels misplaced, sorry.
>
> And indeed, this is huge downside of the LAU community
lately. These
> actions are cheered up by a small crowd who know each other
well and
> is backing up each other, even while they don't use NSM
themselves.
> Where the LAU community was a community of people with a
scientific
> background and/ or creative non-mainstream thinking, it's
now a group
> of witchhunters who call everyone with a different opinion
a troll.
LAU and LAD are dying off, but not related to the topic at
hand, I think.
We in these communities still hang out in IRC rooms and
mailing lists.
This is arcane tech by new generations, who are used to stuff
like Slack
and Discord.
So the people that remain, I expect to be closer to one
another, because
we are now smaller than we used to be.
Even during 2020 LAC live-stream, IRC was an afterthought
> Hail the community!
>
> But sorry, as we use to say in this part of the world:
weeds do not
> die... Go male! :)
>
> Future? I don't see how these two projects can come
together really.
> What the people of the fork could do, is to sent patches as
much as
> possible to the original project maybe. And / or maybe get
rid of the
> FLTK fork and focus on Argodejo only. Anyway, that's not my
> expertise, nor did I create this situation, nor do I want
to waste my
> time on it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
