I don't think it has anything to do with "lowering costs" per se - it's supply and demand. Entry level positions simply do not have the barrier to entry that they did before. If the skillset is more ubiquitous, then the price it commands goes down. That's exactly the same with any other trade or profession.
OEMs don't woo companies to outsource - HP as an OEM has no interest in taking over your IT - just you buying stuff from our PCSG. HP ITO/Enterprise Services (which is a completely different business unit) does. Then there are companies like Wipro which would like to take over your IT, but they aren't an OEM at all. And it's not about "paying peanuts get monkeys" - what's happened too much in IT is paying inflated salaries for "well trained engineers" yet projects are late/over budget/etc. Cheers Ken -----Original Message----- From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Friday, 3 February 2012 11:29 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT - ugh! One other thing that I think we may see is adjustments in wages. Starting positions may not offer the same wages as they did in the past in an attempt for companies to lower costs. I also see what I perceive as attempts by OEMs to woo companies to outsource more and more services to them (such as HP) rather than encourage companies to have well-trained engineers. Of course if you pay peanuts you're still going to get monkeys, unless someone can't afford to eat anything else. -----Original Message----- From: David Lum [mailto:david....@nwea.org] Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 7:59 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT - ugh! That was well put, Ken. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Schaefer [mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 7:39 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT - ugh! I think our opinions are coloured by our industry and in particular working in (small scale) systems administrator, which is more of a trade than a profession. For many other professions: civil engineering, medicine, accounting - there is no way you'd get anywhere in most countries without a degree. There is simply too much established theory in those fields that you just have to know in order to be useful. Systems engineering might be a bit different because basic theory and principles are not as well established. Software and electrical engineering are perhaps more established, and there are many algorithms, principles and methodologies (like lifecycle management, project management) etc that a structured course such as a degree can help you with. That said, systems engineering will change to. Organisations (starting with the biggest, but I suspect it'll eventually make its way down to the smaller ones) are looking for structured, repeatable, predictable delivery. They outsource. They get x service for $y within z minutes/hours/days. And the companies that provide it (HP/EDS, CSC, IBM, Satyam, Wipro, etc.) all have regulated processes, backed by technologies (invariably built upon ITIL at the moment). If you want to get ahead in this type of world, there'll have to be some theory that you need to learn, because deep technical skills are for architecture/design/implementation, and not operations (except for those in high severity incident management). Operations is about following processes, managing expectations, and executing structured/tested change requests. Cheers Ken -----Original Message----- From: Mathew Shember [mailto:mathew.shem...@synopsys.com] Sent: Friday, 3 February 2012 3:57 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT - ugh! Indeed. Certs and degrees are used by people who aren't technical and don't know what to ask let alone evaluate. I have seen talent from prestigious schools and I have seen lunkheads from prestigious schools. The universities were setting rather high expectations however. A friend used to handle the college new hires and he said he had to talk a few off the ledge because they weren't VPs inside of 6 months. Thanks, Mathew ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
