On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 8:55 AM Matthew Brett <matthew.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Only to say that: > > * I used to have a very firm preference for mail, because I'm pretty > happy with Gmail as a mail interface, and I didn't want to have > another channel I had to monitor, but > * I've spent more time on Discourse over the last year, mainly on > Jupyter, but I have also set up instances for my own projects. I now > have a fairly strong preference for Discourse, because of its very > nice Markdown authoring, pleasant web interface for reviewing > discussions and reasonable mailing list mode. > +1 Markdown support, the ability to edit/delete posts, a good web interface and the possibility for new-comers to jump into an ongoing discussion are all major advantages to Discourse. I am not concerned about spam management or moderation. NumPy-Discussion is not a very popular form, and we have plenty of mature contributors to help moderate. > * I have hardly used Github Discussions, so I can't comment on them. > Are there large projects that are happy with them? How does that > compare to Discourse, for example? > GitHub Discussions is more of a Q&A platform, like Stackoverflow. I don't think it really makes sense for free form discussion. > * It will surely cause some harm if it is not clear where discussions > happen, mainly (mailing list, Discourse, Github Discussions) so it > seems to me better to decide on one standard place, and commit to > that. > +1 let's pick a place and stick to it! > > Cheers, > > Matthew > > On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 4:39 PM Rohit Goswami <rgosw...@quansight.com> > wrote: > > > > I’m firmly against GH discussions because of the upvoting mechanism. We > don’t need to be Reddit or SO. .NET had a bad experience with the > discussions as well [1]. > > > > [1] https://github.com/dotnet/aspnetcore/issues/29935 > > > > — Rohit > > > > On 1 Oct 2021, at 15:04, Andras Deak wrote: > > > > On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 4:27 PM Ilhan Polat <ilhanpo...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> The reason why I mentioned GH discussions is that literally everybody > who is engaged with the code, is familiar with the format, included in the > codebase product and has replies in built unlike the Discourse (opinion is > mine) useless flat discussion design where replies are all over the place > just like the mailing list in case you are not using a tree view supporting > client. Hence topic hijacking is one of the main usability difficulties of > emails. > >> > >> The goal here is to have a coherent engagement with everyone not just > within a small circle, such that there is indeed a discussion happening > rather than a few people chiming in. It would be a nice analytics exercise > to have how many active users using these lists. I'd say 20-25 max for > contribs and team members which is really not much. I know some people are > still using IRC and mailing lists but I wouldn't argue that these are the > modern media to have proper engaging discussions. "Who said to whom" is the > bread and butter of such discussions. And I do think that discourse is > exactly the same thing with mailing lists with a slightly better UI while > virtually everyone else in the world is doing replies. > > > > > > (There are probably a lot of users like myself who follow the mailing > list discussions but rarely feel the need to speak up themselves. Not that > this says much either way in the discussion, just pointing it out). > > > > I'm not intimately familiar with github discussions (I've only used it a > few times), but as far as I can tell it only has answers (or "comments") > and comments (or "replies") on answers, i.e. 2 levels of replies rather > than a flat single level of replies. If this is indeed the case then I'm > not sure it's that much better than a flat system, since when things really > get hairy then 2 levels are probably also insufficient to ensure "who said > to whom". The "clear replies" argument would hold stronger (in my > peanut-gallery opinion) for a medium that supports full reply trees like > many comment sections do on various websites. > > > > András > > > >> > >> I would be willing to help with the objections raised since I have been > using GH discussions for quite a while now and there are many tools > available for administration of the discussions. For example, > >> > >> > https://github.blog/changelog/2021-09-14-notification-emails-for-discussions/ > >> > >> is a recent feature. I don't work for GitHub obviously and have nothing > to do with them but the reasons I'm willing to hear about. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 3:07 PM Matthew Brett <matthew.br...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 1:57 PM Rohit Goswami <rgosw...@quansight.com> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> > I guess then the approach overall would evolve to something like > using the mailing list to announce discourse posts which need input. Though > I would assume that the web interface essentially makes the mailing list > almost like discourse, even for new users. > >>> > > >>> > The real issue IMO is still the moderation efforts and additional > governance needed for maintaining discourse. > >>> > >>> Yes - that was what I meant. I do see that mailing lists are harder > >>> to moderate, in that once the email has gone out, it is difficult to > >>> revoke. So is the argument just that you *can* moderate on Discourse, > >>> therefore you need to think about it more? Do we have any reason to > >>> think that more moderation will in fact be needed? We've needed very > >>> little so far on the mailing list, as far as I can see. > >>> > >>> Chers, > >>> > >>> Matthew > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> NumPy-Discussion mailing list -- numpy-discussion@python.org > >>> To unsubscribe send an email to numpy-discussion-le...@python.org > >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/numpy-discussion.python.org/ > >>> Member address: ilhanpo...@gmail.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NumPy-Discussion mailing list -- numpy-discussion@python.org > >> To unsubscribe send an email to numpy-discussion-le...@python.org > >> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/numpy-discussion.python.org/ > >> Member address: deak.and...@gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NumPy-Discussion mailing list -- numpy-discussion@python.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to numpy-discussion-le...@python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/numpy-discussion.python.org/ > > Member address: rgosw...@quansight.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NumPy-Discussion mailing list -- numpy-discussion@python.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to numpy-discussion-le...@python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/numpy-discussion.python.org/ > > Member address: matthew.br...@gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > NumPy-Discussion mailing list -- numpy-discussion@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to numpy-discussion-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/numpy-discussion.python.org/ > Member address: sho...@gmail.com >
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