Robert- I guess I have two answers to your question:
1. Does the license allow you to recreate content like that? Theoretically it does. Presuming you are smart enough to not use trademarks, etc, the sticking point for you is this: "5.Representation of Authority to Contribute: If You are contributing original material as Open Game Content, You represent that Your Contributions are Your original creation and/or You have sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License." The question is what does "original creation" mean? Does this term have some additional meaning beyond the creation required for "normal" copyright law? Certainly, to some extent, this is not your original creation. It is a willful duplication of existing content that you would have no way to create and no reason to create if the actual original content didnt exist before yours. I'm sure you understand the contrary argument. 2. Even if the license does allow it, should you do it? I say no. I wouldnt. Maybe I am misreading your post, but I feel you are trying to find some emotional justification for what you are doing by stating that "newbies want the content," "the content is hard to get," "it would just be gotten illegally anyway," "the publisher has no interest in the games." It sounds like the real reason you want to do this is that you are "tired of not being able to fully discuss or republish parts of the games at whim." Well, you dont own the content. The one with the right to have a "whim" as to what to do with the material is the content owner, which isnt you. The bottom line is the owner has said no to using licenses to release his content. So, presumably, he wouldnt want you doing so. I personally wouldnt hold up the OSRIC project as a good example. I think there are big problems with it and wouldnt touch it with a 10 ft (or, in OD&D terms, a 10') pole. I appreciate the legal question of the use of the license. I think that is the most dangerous possible use of the license. You are trying to use the license to do soemthing it wasnt designed to do, IMHO. Plus, as I have raised before, there is what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do. Clark --- Exile In Paradise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Open Game Gurus, > I would like to discuss a real-world issue I am > wrestling with. > > I am a collector and fan of a game system published > from 1980-1994 by a publisher that is long since > gone. Last year, in an net forum, the copyright > holder himself stated that he has no interest in the > "games" anymore, but is continuing to develop the > "setting" for his own undisclosed purposes. > > The original publisher has been approached several > times since 1994 and asked if they would consider > releasing the games as (in order) public domain, > GNU open documents, Creative Commons, and Open > Game License. Each time, and for each license idea, > the answer has been "no" or silence. > > Meanwhile, every (rare) newcomer to the game asks > the same three questions: > FAQ#1: "who owns the copyrights?" > FAQ#2: "where can I get the books?" > > And when they find the books are so rare they > never even appear on eBay anymore, the famous: > FAQ#3: "can someone send me PDFs of the books?" > > With the publishers own admission of apathy > regarding > the "games", and being tired of not being able to > fully discuss or republish parts of the games at > whim, the idea has occurred to me to try to write, > publish, and distribute Open Game versions of the > copyrighted games. > > The setting and trademarks are not considered here. > > The setting is unmistakable anyway, so its a given > that a new setting that allowed the same situations > would have to be created. Also, its a given that all > artwork and trademark terms would have to be avoided > like the plague. The name of the company and some of > their product names are some of those very terms > which is why they are not listed here. > > For years the Linux software community has excelled > at opening "closed" software... by recreating the > closed program as a work/play-alike open version and > releasing that. > > The excellent FreeCiv project is one example of > many... its a look and play alike version of the > copyrighted game "Civilization" by Sid Meier. > > I am wondering if the same ideas the Linux folks > have used would work for opening closed/out-of-print > tabletop games? The OSRIC project leads me to > believe so. > > Here's my thinking that I hope you can all provide > a sanity check for: > > According to a U.S. Patent and Trademark Office > memo (FL-108), game "rules" cannot be copyright, > only the specific "expression" of the rules. My > understanding is that the difference is this: The > rules to a game like baseball cannot be copyright. > Only my specific description of baseball rules > can be. Anyone else is still free to write their > own description of the same game in their own > words. > > So, if I go line by line through the text, and > rewrite the "mechanics" into my own words, and > reorganize the whole thing (based on my own > prejudice of how it should have been written ;) > I should be able to release the result to the > web under an open game license and be reasonably > sure I haven't actually broken any law? > > I realize I could still be exposed to a lawsuit > for doing so since Americans can sue each other > for no reason at all, much less with cause, but > if my understandings of things are correct, I > should have a fair chance of winning my side of > the case should it come to open legal battle. > > If this whole house of cards still stands up, > then there are some specific places that are > not very clear that I could use some advice on. > > One is numeric data in tables. The game I am > interested in "opening" is heavily based on numeric > tables. I realize I can't copy them verbatim, but > the table data is part of what makes the mechanics > work. > > For example, if I want to check to see if someone > has scored a hit during an attack, I have to > cross-reference the tables to find part of the > result. > So, are the tables considered *mechanics* or part of > the rules then? > > Also, what are the issues around reducing the tables > down to formula through regression or other > analysis, > and then using the formula to recreate the tables? > If you can prove you have the formula, does it help > in court? > > An example of this issue would be the Experience > Points table from a popular fantasy game. > I have seen several formula published that will > exactly re-create the XP table. Prometheus published > one of them under the as-yet-untested Prometheus > license. Iron Heroes published the same table, but > used a constant that was slightly different than > the original formula... so the table *works* the > same, but the actual numbers vary a little. But > its easy to tell its still the exact same method > and progression rates. > > So, what are the legal gotchas around numeric > tables and formula that generate them? > > Many people have done this regression work on the > game in question, and PDFs of formula and creation > kits for tables based objects have been floating > around the net for years without the original > publisher challenging them. > > The publisher I am interested in has long been > rumored to have introduced intentional flaws > in their tables to prevent regression... so if > I find those and create a new "fixed" table from > a simplified formula I expect I will be fine. > > For me, the issue is re-creating the specific > tables with the same data, so that the system > works the same. > > I am happy to discuss this on or offlist. > -- > Robert "Exile In Paradise" Murphey > Question: Is it better to abide by the rules > until they're changed or help speed the change by > breaking them? > > _______________________________________________ > Ogf-l mailing list > Ogf-l@mail.opengamingfoundation.org > http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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