Darren said:
"You don't know how much I wish that were true. :-)"
It is true. It is not common. One has to remember the sheer number of
Comp-Sci grads every year.
"Not to be rude, but 99% of the time the same exact thing happens with open
software. Victory is what you make of it, and if you are using a money
scale,
then expect 'victory nobody' for the people that write open software as
well."
I will concede on this point for now. It's untenable as is, and thus a wash
for me to continue.
"Well, I think someone (whoever said unimaginative with leech) is reading a
bit
much into the leech definition. A leech is a person that takes what the
community gave for free and then uses it without adding any free stuff to
the
collective works of the community. So technically Martin's example *is*
being a
leech. However, I wouldn't add the unimaginative part to it."
It was added by implication, not explicit statement. However the fact
remains that if this person puts a lot of effort into producing something
(thereby being creative) they are "branded" by you folks for not including
open content.
"Also, I don't think anyone is saying that capitalism is wrong. I think they
are
saying that taking from the community without adding anything to it is
wrong."
A point to which I disagree. It is not wrong, and it is completely within
the rights of those who choose to do so. It may not be the most productive
thing, and in the end it fails to serve even the people who do so, as people
stop producing things. In addition, nothing stops a person from producing 4
adventures along the lines I've used as my example, and then producing a
compendium of OGC items, including original creatures, classes, skills,
feats, magic items, etc. Yet until they do their 5th product they have to
listen to people calling them names . . . which may in fact prevent them
from having any damned DESIRE to contribute.
"No, only if you use material from the community without having the common
courtesy of adding a little to the "open" works of the community. After all,
it
is the "open" content of the community that you are basing your work on.
Just
like you don't want people to use your ideas and sell them when you have not
opened them. Those that have given to the open community don't want you
using
there stuff and making money without you contributing back to the community
your
work is based on."
Common courtesy is great, but why would I compromise a story line and plot,
etc. that I have just to "throw you a bone" as it were? It's not my job to
provide you with OGC in every product I release. If it doesn't fit, why do
I have to force it? Because you think it'd be nice?
> I spend 2.5 MONTHS of regular 40 hour weeks on this product (the 8
adventure
> book we've discussed, of course) and you tell me that I'm a leech and that
I
> should be ashamed because I want to have closed content, thus protecting
my
> blood, sweat, and tears? No. Not on your life. Period.
"<Shrug> By the definition of leech, it doesn't matter how much time you put
into
it."
Only to people who care nothing about the efforts people put in . . . which
isn't me. I also don't use the term leech on people.
"If you use open content, basing your work on the kindness of others, and
then
don't add to the community, then yes, by the definition of leech, you are a
leech."
Again, your opinion.
> This is not GNU. This is not Linux. This is d20 (or OGL) and it's NOT
the
> same.
"I've always wondered about this statement. How are the two not the same?
Besides
the obvious that with the OGL you can keep some of your work closed."
Well, that'd be a BIG difference. The GPL forces you to open your work.
(And as Martin noted earlier, programmers DO curse this fact.) It is viral
in nature, and the OGL is not. (Though some folks seem to want it to be.)
"Both are trying to make a community. Both communities exist and grow only
so
long as people contribute open material to it. If people stand on the work
of
the community without contributing to the community, then it is only the
community that gets hurt. Pretty soon you won't have anything to stand on as
the
community will no longer exist. It will have been "leeched" to death."
Which in my opinion will be excellerated by throwing around rude titles.
Feel free to insult people all you'd like, but it's very unlikely to make
those people react in a positive manner.
"Also, don't use blood and sweat as an excuse. You don't work on anything 40
hs a
week for 2 and half months without becoming attached to it. Giving away
software
is no easier than giving away game material. In fact I can guarantee you
that
you have not had near the heart nor soul put into anything you have done for
the
OGL as the people have for linux. Example: GIMP has been in development
since
the beginning of linux, and they gave it all away for free."
Yes, they did. So did Linus . . . and so did those folks working on the
free gaming systems . . . but why does this mean that everyone else has to?
A product will stand upon it's own merits. If I design a product, sell it
for $10, and make 3 sales, that is MY problem. If I make a product that
sells for 1000 units, great! If I release something for free, and it gets
50000 downloads, that's good too. But it is MY choice, and not yours. It's
not for you to call me names or degrade my decision, or anyone elses.
Be a good member of the community, please. Lead by example. I can't tell
you what I'll come out with that is OGC, because I'm not that far along yet
. . . but if it's appropriate to what I am working on, you'll see it.
"So please don't degrade the effort and soul that people have put into the
Open
Source movement. I almost had sympathy for you until you tried doing that."
I didn't, so you can feel free to have sympathy. :)
-Mathew Gray
-------------
For more information, please link to www.opengamingfoundation.org
