I disagree back. It depends on what the thing is that's being used. As it is, OGNL is pretty core to a lot of functionality in webwork and xwork both. It's a core dependency. You couldn't remove it without a lot of hassle, and at that point, why bother using xwork or webwork at all? Find another command framework and web layer that suits you better. The other two statements are not equivalent.
If webwork is using velocity behind the scenes to handle portions of what it's doing, but the user isn't forced to use velocity to work with webwork, then it's not a restrictive dependency. It just means that there's one more jar file in the dependency list. I can understand wanting to cut down on dependencies, but if something is so core to the way a product works, then cutting down on dependencies just for its own sake becomes counter-productive. That said, I don't personally know exactly what webwork is using velocity for behind the scenes, so I don't know exactly how much effort is involved in refactoring. If it's easy, then fine, I'm all for cutting down unnecessary dependencies. But if it's a lot of hassle, I think that it's not worth the effort to remove the dependency. It would be great if there were no dependencies at all, but that's just not possible; if velocity or some other library is performing core functionality that couldn't be handled otherwise, then it deserves to remain a core dependency. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hani Suleiman Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 5:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] WebWorks without velocity how to I disagree. I think the point he's making is 'if I don't want to use velocity templates, I should not need velocity'. Equivelant statements are: 'if I don't want to use ognl-expressions, I should not need ognl' 'if I don't want to use jasper reports, I should not need jasper reports' 'if I don't want to use oracle, I should not need to install it' On Dec 12, 2003, at 8:47 AM, Drew McAuliffe wrote: > Unfortunately, that's like saying if I don't like commons-logging, I > shouldn't be forced to use it. Or if I don't like ognl, I shouldn't be > forced to use it. You can't make every dependency in the library > pluggable. > The only reason I could see velocity becoming a barrier to your work > with webwork would be if the dependency forced you to write velocity > templates. > It does not. If you never want to touch a velocity template ever with > webwork, you don't have to. But you need the jar file because it is > used behind the scenes for some work. If you're not being forced to > use velocity templates, then webwork shouldn't be forced to remove the > dependency on something it uses for its internals just because you > don't happen to like it. > > It sounds to me like you're confused about what the velocity > dependency means. It doesn't mean you don't have a choice in > presentation methods, because you do (Freemarker, JSP, velocity). If > you want to use the ui tags, then you may want to know about velocity > to understand the templates or provide your own. If you don't want to > use them, then fine, don't, and you'll never be forced to even look at > a velocity template. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > remigijus > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 4:02 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] WebWorks without velocity how to > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tracy Snell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 1:49 PM > Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] WebWorks without velocity how to > > >> >> On Dec 11, 2003, at 1:22 PM, Jason Carreira wrote: >> >>> WW1 you can use without velocity, WW2 uses velocity for its UI tag >>> templates. If you don't plan to use the UI tags, you can remove it. >> >> You can use WW2 and just use JSPs and never have to write any >> Velocity templates. However, Velocity is still there lurking in the >> dark helping you out. >> >> > > Ok I'm happy to get velocity in help when I need it, but I don't want > to be forced to do that. You can say siple don't use it. Ok I already > doing that. > But we are tolking about ww2 design issues. It has to be clear and if > it's addition, evryone should now that is not ww2 but just another > additional feature. And as I see some people also rising some > questions about use of freemaker instead of velocity. I think I'm not > only one person who think in this way. > > Forget about what is already, done, think again is it better to have > it as option or let's say in the core of ww. Try to be objective, > don't be inertic (inertia - I don't know how to write it in english in > correct way, I hope you eill undertand). >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. >> Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you >> create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click >> Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensymphony-webwork mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. > Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you > create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click > Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ > _______________________________________________ > Opensymphony-webwork mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/opensymphony-webwork > ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? 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