lol. What a concept. But we would have to charge 20 or 30 K... of course....
:)
Hey *I* see it, our clients seem to equate inexpensive with "not ready for
prime time"
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Cannon-Brookes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 10:09 PM
Subject: RE: Orion in production
Robert,
I agree with some of your points, and I have a 'semi' solution that I've
told Magnus about before.
The autoupdate tool is brilliant, but too addictive. Sometimes I've updated
to get fixes for bugs, only to get another version with a different annoying
bug.
If it had the option to autoupdate to the latest 'stable' version, or the
latest 'rough edged' version, it would be perfect.
eg java -jar autoupdate.jar -version=stable / development
Oh, and to Al who says he can't see Orion because it's too inexpensive? Just
tell the client it's $10k, bill 'em $10k and they'll love you for it - oh,
and either pocket the $8.5k or donate it to the Orion guys, I'm sure they
wouldn't knock you back ;)
Mike
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Robert Krueger
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 5:19 AM
> To: Orion-Interest
> Subject: RE: Orion in production
>
>
>
> At 07:46 21.10.00 , you wrote:
> >I think that Orion far outshines products like EA Server, Web
> Sphere, etc
> >because
> >of the functionality available - and you are right - the docs are just a
> >little more pretty
> >and their tech support is absurdly costly and much less informative than
> >what is found on
> >this list.
>
> <snip/>
>
> ok, sorry to somehow take the part of mr. bad guy here but I get the
> feeling someone following this discussion IMHO doesn't really get
> the right
> impression. it's a little bit too black and white. first of all,
> let me say
> that after about a year of intensively using orion in development
> and half
> a year in production, I'm a generally very satisfied customer and I do
> appreciate the completeness, standards conformance, speed, great logical
> concept of orion. however, I think it's oversimplifying things to
> say it's
> just marketing that makes the big names so expensive (it's a significant
> factor, though) and it's not a very good assessment to say that
> orion beat
> all competitors' asses if it weren't for the lack of good documentation.
> there are some significant things that are a lot of work and
> therefore very
> expensive like QA and rigid testing with many, many hardware,
> software, db,
> vm combinations that a company the size of evermind simply cannot deliver
> (have you looked at the number of platforms you can get websphere for?).
> anyone who says that write once run anywhere really works 100% probably
> hasn't been involved in too many real-world projects where certain
> combinations of VMs and software just crash under certain load
> conditions.
> that's why e.g. weblogic is tested and certified for a particular
> platform.
> of course, part of this certification stuff is to keep the typical IT
> manager happy but to say it's all bullshit is off-target and not very
> professional IMO. when orion became officially stable (1.0) it still
> contained many very serious bugs and I presume it wouldn't have been 1.0
> time if it hadn't been for J1. the flexibility and development
> speed of the
> orion team takes it's toll in the number of fundamental bugs in
> those very
> features. with a few exceptions I doubt many of those would slip through
> bea or ibm QA. I sometimes think it feels like an open source project but
> without the source. a very loyal user community and very short release
> cycles but still lots of rough edges.
>
> don't get me wrong. I'm a great fan of orion and I think for many
> projects
> it's an unbeatable tool with no serious competitors especially
> considering
> the price and I think magnus and karl are extremely good software
> architects and true J2EE wizards but I think there are some more
> things one
> has to consider before making the kind of statements that have
> been made in
> this thread. at my company we share the experiences with a very efficent
> development environment using orion together with jikes and ant
> but we also
> had our share of spending considerable amounts of time working around
> serious bugs or waiting for fixes for showstoppers.
>
> to sum things up, IMO orion is a great deal and it completely meets (and
> exceeds) the requirements many people have for an appserver but it does
> have its rough edges (and that's not primarily the documentation
> IMO). I'm
> quite sure that those will fade away eventually but evermind
> still has some
> work to do in the areas QA, support and documentation.
>
> let's just hope they don't get bought out and manage to grow
> quickly yet in
> a controlled manner so they can continue developing a kick-ass server.
>
> just my 2c
>
> robert
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (-) Robert Krüger
> (-) SIGNAL 7 Gesellschaft für Informationstechnologie mbH
> (-) Brüder-Knauß-Str. 79 - 64285 Darmstadt,
> (-) Tel: 06151 665401, Fax: 06151 665373
> (-) [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.signal7.de
>
>
>
