after enjoying watching this debate for the last while I decided to check out what all the fuss was about so I downloaded the IDEA software. Now I will be honest, JDeveloper has been my tool of choice for a long time I have tried others (ie. JBuilder and I know JDeveloper is licensed from it but I really dont like it, also used the likes of visual cafe I hated that one and so on and so on) back to the plot, I haven't been playing with it for too long but I dont see what all the shouting is about so maybe someone could give me their view who has used both IDEA and JDeveloper 9i extensively cause I am not convinced at all that it is better that JDev9i
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Joseph Ottinger Sent: 24 March 2002 12:50 To: Orion-Interest Subject: Re: idea=$395.00USD was: RE: Java IDE? On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, The Boss wrote: > I usually build tools to build tools so I mostly can't "afford" > to accept other people's design philosophies. Thus the tools of > choice for me are the simplest because they have the least > conceptual overhead. Put it like this, I am NOT interested in > making the most out of something like Idea, I AM interested > in doing three or four or tens times BETTER than Idea in > creating J2EE apps. Yes, I can use a tool like 'vi' to build the > better stuff, but I can't use Idea to do better than Idea if you > see what I mean. Like a dinosaur Idea has made its evolutionary > commitment, as have the other dinosaurs of similar ilke. It > sounds a lot better than JBuilder though for what it does ... it > simply doesn't sound better than my tools ... ;) Spoken (or typed) like a man who's used JBuilder and assumed IDEA's just like it. IDEA doesn't write code for you unless you tell it to. And when you tell it to, it writes the code you told it to. It doesn't generate GUIs that suck. In fact, it doesn't generate GUIs at all. It's an editor. A java editor. Not a crappy IDE like Netbeans or JBuilder. Not an editor with Java features, like VSE or Emacs (both of which I've more than a passing familiarity with.) It's an editor whose designers said, "What do Java people need to do?" and the editor enables that. It doesn't require the developer to do things. It enables the developer, and gets out of the way. Sorry for the caustic tone, but it sounds like you're rendering judgement without a clue, based on price and misconceptions. > > regards > goffredo > > > > > Um, dude... you're using a commercial product. Why? Typically, because the > > value you get out of licensing it gives you a good return on your > > investment. I *could* use Tomcat instead of Orion... but Tomcat sucks. > > It's free, but it sucks. If it didn't suck, the return on the investment > > of time would be worthwhile. I use Orion. (Do the math.) > > > > Editors work the same way. I *could* use vi, or emacs (and I used to use > > vi and emacs), but I found that IDEA boosted my productivity (the > > "return") so much that I was able to justify the cost (the "investment") > > easily and well. And that's after wasting my time with JBuilder, Forte, > > Kawa, JEdit, Netbeans (which is better than Forte, despite Forte being > > based on Netbeans, joe, vi, emacs, and Eclipse (and I'm sure I'm leaving > > some out in this list). > > > > If you're going to wave the "It's not free" flag, run back to Tomcat and > > Apache where you belong. > > > >> JBuilder was a waste of time after using it > >> for years, and waking up to the fact that > >> I only used it to package classes anyway. I > >> bet people who are recommending idea are using > >> other people's money to buy idea licenses? > >> > >> What about Simplicity? > >> > >> regards ... > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> From: "Eric Hodges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> Subject: RE: Java IDE? > >>> Date: 22/03/2002 14:33:50 > >>> To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> > >>> Idea for coding, Jbuilder for GUI layout. > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Clay Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >>>> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:55 PM > >>>> To: Orion-Interest > >>>> Subject: Java IDE? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Just a question, any suggestions as to what a good IDE is? > >>>> I've tried JBuilder, IDEA (I like IDEA) and a few others... > >>>> any recommendations? > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> -Clay > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au > >> > >> > >> > > >
