At 12:18 AM 3/24/2002, you wrote: >You can't afford $400?!? where the hell are all you >cheap bastards working that you can't scrape up $400? >I think you all need to focus a little harder on >working and spending less time looking at porn; then >maybe you could get a job that would afford you a >salary that gives you disposable income.... I could >come up with $400 in two months just by bringing lunch >to work from home... > >IDEA has rediculously high ROI. And it's normally high >productivity is skyrocketed if you are refactoring >because of all the advanced refactoring features it >has. > >IDEA was written by people who apparently actually use >the editor they're selling. JBuilder is probably used >for JBuilder, too, but look at how long it takes >Borland to crank out new useless features; Intellij >does it every week. > >to sum it up: get a job that pays well you slackers! >(or at least cut down on the ammount you spend on porn >every month) > >Noah
I have to agree Noah, I won't work for anyone that does not have the budget for tools, that means they don't have the budget to afford me. Then again I have been a Senior Systems Architect for 8 years now, and have worked on large enterprise scale projects for 10 years now. Personally having at least ONE license for Together from TogetherSoft is a requirement for me to take a job. I have not used IDEA because I have lots of custom modules I have created for Together and just have not seen the need, I may download it and try it out, even though I don't need " new useless features every week " once a year like Borland does is fine for me ;-) Personally I use LOTS of tools for different tasks. 1. SlickEdit can not be beat for pounding out quicky command line tools in any language, its support for "code insight" is un-matched in any IDE esp for Java. It is awesome for cranking out straight C/C++ that use a command line interface also. For projects with hundreds of classes in dozens of packages it does get a little cumbersome. That is when I use Together. IDEA looks like the closest competitor that SlickEdit has right now so I would probably say if you don't like SlickEdit then consider IDEA. 2. Together is a MUST for anything that is close to enterprise wide development and has multiple developers, code trees, or any kind of complexity, I only work on extemely large scale projects, that usually have legacy code that has to be dug thru to port to a J2EE container. The key to together is the SEEMLESS round trip engineering and code generation from diagram to code and back again, and seemless integrations with other external editors ( I tend to use SlickEdit as the editor for Together ). If you don't "GET" the value of a tool like Together you are not doing serious development. There is a FREE community edition for Together with no time limits and most of the "useless features" removed. If you try it and don't understand what it brings to the development cycle of real world enterprise development efforts you got a ways to go in your career. 3. JBuilder is great for "cowboy" programming for small shops where you and only you have to work on a code base ( ala Visual Basic ), the new 6 version has one of the prettiest UML diagram generators I have ever seen, but the it does have some things I don't like. I like to use it for GUI based applications and things that need a RAD style developement cycle ( ala VB again ). JBuilder support ANY JDK version unlike the uniformed want to say, all these tools support any JDK, I am using 1.4 in EVERY tool mentioned in this letter with NO PROBLEMS. In my experience people that complain about the price of tools or say that vi is all they need either aren't working on real world enterprise projects or are not real world programmers, ANYTHING that can increase my productivity is worth buying, simply because my TIME is worth MORE than anything else, it is priceless. If you worked on some of the projects I have in the last 6 years you would understand how silly all this vi and emacs and the jdk is all you need rehtoric is. Every minute I SAVE by using a tool gives me a minute to spend with my wife, family, riding my motorcycles, recording music, working on my movie, sleeping or anything else, you get the idea. To paraphrase a shampoo commerical "yeah Together is expensive, but I am worth it"! I mean if you suck at playing guitar you a crappy guitar will do, because no matter how much the guitar costs, you will still suck. If you don't have any good program design skills then the most expensive IDE will not make your program designs any better. But they will make someone that knows what they are doing work MUCH faster and be more effective. So anyone that chants the "FREE mantra" keep using Tomcat and Vi and all the other "free" crap because in the end it will cost you HUNDREDS TIMES more than buying a proper tool and saving money over the long haul. Then again if you are lowballing jobs, and working on crappy little projects all this is moot, why are you using Orion then, why not use JBoss or any of the other FREE EJB containers. I mean you "COULD" move a mountian with a plastic spoon, hell they are FREE at every fast food joint, but would'nt a sane and reasonable person spend the money on real earth moving equipment and get the job done quickly so they could move on to the next paying job moving the next mountain. Free development tools that are worth using is a very short list. 1. ANT ( use it to build all my C/C++ projects now! ) 2. CVS ( even thou I prefer more sophisticated packages for larger teams as CVS is hell to maintain once you get over 6 - 8 developers ) 3. Apache web server ( it is a known quanity and fairly low maintance once it is intitally set up )
