This makes a very good point about the ACS (and actually a lot of communities): Don't expect to get the most out of the organisation simply by paying the fees, or rocking up to a meeting (eg user groups). You get out, what you put in; the more you contribute, the more you get out of them.
Back when I was Perth based I was quite involved with the ACS, I met a lot of people, and felt like I was staying in contact with the rest of the planet (important being in Perth where you're somewhat isolated). Having moved to Sydney, my focus has changed. I'm no longer a member of the ACS, and don't contribute; ergo, I don't get anything out of it and it doesn't offer me any value. I'm not saying that everyone should join the ACS, and I definitely don't buy the argument that to be professional you need to be part of a professional body. My 2cents on that argument is that the ACS does a poor job of being that professional body but this doesn't mean that it can't offer other benefits to members (as I said, the more you put in, the more you get out). Nick Randolph | Built to Roam Pty Ltd | Microsoft MVP - Windows Platform Development | +61 412 413 425 | @btroam | skype:nick_randolph The information contained in this email is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose or use the information in this email in any way. Built to Roam Pty Ltd does not guarantee the integrity of any emails or attached files. The views or opinions expressed are the author's own and may not reflect the views or opinions of Built to Roam Pty Ltd. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2016 11:16 AM To: Grant Castner <[email protected]>; 'ozDotNet' <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [OT] ACS - relevant? I am a member and have been for 8 or so years. I recall at the time I did not have my degree so had to go through a lot of hoops to prove I had the experience to be eligible to join. It made me happy they don't just let anyone in, they are serious. It was a requirement to get the role i was applying for at UWA. I remained a member and have been to a couple of sundowners and ACS conferences. I have also used them to find an IT smart lawyer one time when I needed some contract advice. I got a discount with the lawyer and he gave me some good advice. There are also some training and other benefits but you do have to put time into it, like anything. Its easy to do and easy to not do. Most probably don't bother but it is nice to know there is someone there I can ask if anything comes up that I need help with. Its also tax deductible. I say give them a shot and if you are not getting anything out of them, don't be too quick to blame them, look at what you are putting into it first. Be cause in your career, its yours. Don't expect it all handed to you on a silver platter. My 2c Sent from Outlook Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550987> for Windows 10 phone From: Grant Castner<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2016 7:37 AM To: 'ozDotNet'<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: [OT] ACS - relevant? I had a chat with the National Sales Manager from ACS about a month ago and they are acutely aware that they need to become more relevant. For example, they realise that while they have 23,000 members, that is only about 5% of the IT workforce. The meeting was to discuss their new corporate membership package (they call it the Professional Partner Program) which provides ACS membership for all relevant staff in the organisation for a single fee. I have copied some of the benefits and events that they sent me if you want to take a look. Cheers, Grant Dr Grant Castner CIO Professional Development Training Pty Ltd 0458 770 749 http://twitter.com/grantcastner https://au.linkedin.com/in/grantcastner The ACS is the professional association for Australia's ICT sector. Our commitment in the creation and provision of opportunities for our members extends through the development of ICT skills, formulation of effective policies on ICT related matters, and building a community with a true sense of belonging. The ACS will be running a series of key national events this year that are deliberately focused on thought leadership initiatives revolving around the economy, jobs and the skills needed to assure a prosperous future for Australia. For example: * The ACS Remuneration Survey Report which is an annual research piece featuring year-to-year presentation and analysis of remuneration data and trends or the ICT sector to be carried out by the Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers, Australia (APESMA) in conjunction with the ACS. The survey report provides the very latest information on remuneration of computer professionals in Australia. Access to this report gives you the advantage when negotiating enterprise or workplace agreements, individual contracts, or performing salary reviews, and it will help you retain and attract the best quality staff; * The ACS Employment Survey Report provides detailed information on the employment outlook for ICT professionals in Australia based upon survey responses. Its aim is to assist ICT professionals; those contemplating a career in the industry, and other industry stakeholders, with a useful overview of employment conditions and attitudes in the profession; * The formal launch of the Australian-first strategic research report piece, Future of Work "Porous Boundaries" on the 26th of February relating to the impacts upon the ICT workforce and industry over the next 20 years. This is being delivered in partnership with CSIRO, the Department of Employment and other case study partners such as ANZ Bank and Boston Consulting Group. I'll make sure to send you an invite to this event as this is by invitation-only; * Commencement of the ACS 50th Year Anniversary Celebrations to honour the theme, "50 Years of Inspiring Success - Acknowledging the Past" on the 26th of February; * Education Across the Nation (EdXN) to be held in March 2016 is ACS' signature professional development speakers tour series that presents topical experts sharing insights about the ICT sector today and the future. Key note speaker will be Chris Vein, CEO of the Dome Advisory Services, Chief Innovation Advisor to SIRCA and formerly the Deputy CTO of the US White house and former CIO of World Bank; * The refreshed ACS Australia's Digital Pulse<http://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/69720/02062015-Australias-Digital-Pulse-FINAL.PDF> - the only report of its kind, domestically - with a revised economic narrative. This will be launched at the National Press Club in Canberra by The Hon. Malcolm Turnbull, PM. This research report has been prepared by our partner and leading consultancy firm, Deloitte Access Economics and will be focusing on ICT workforce planning and development of organisations relating to education, employment remuneration, human capital and skills challenges facing the Australian economy. An official launch date in March 2016 is still to be confirmed; * New product launch of the ACS SME Trust Mark that serves as an independent assessment of business and ICT professional in relation to management practices, governance and service delivery in specific ICT areas; * New product launch of ACS Talent/Recruitment to assist all-sized businesses with finding high quality staff and contractors to employ for their businesses; * The annual ACS Future Leaders Institute which is an immersive five-day residential program designed to develop the leadership skills of new and aspiring CIOs. Participants will experience a diverse program of learning experiences facilitated by leaders in the field, including internationally-renowned industry and university experts from around Australia and across the world. Visionary insights into the latest hot issues in ICT will be combined with examples of real-world, best-practice implementations. The emphasis throughout is on sharing ideas and experiences in interactive, collaborative workshops and roundtables, where you'll learn from others who have gone through similar experiences. Participants will join a select group of future leaders, all either CIOs or on the path to becoming one. To prosper in the digital age, Australia needs courageous CIOs who can make the right decisions faster and more often. So what does it take to be one? We all know that being a courageous CIO requires a unique combination of entrepreneurial flair and strong analytical skills. It means that participants are able to recognise the competitive advantages that a particular technology can brings to an organisation and its customers, and effectively drive change. And it means that a participant will have the confidence to face the challenges of disruptive technologies that arrive in ever-shorter cycles. If that sounds like you or anyone you know, then you cannot afford to miss this opportunity. Our next one will be held in May 2016. * In addition to the above, we will also be hosting the ACS Reimagination: Thought Leaders Summit<http://reimagination.acs.org.au/> and Digital Disruption Awards<http://reimagination.acs.org.au/disruptors-awards/> which was held in November 2016 at The Star in Sydney. This 1-day conference will be themed, "Digital Disruption/Competitive Advantage/Jobs and Skills of the Future" brings together government, media, educators, researchers and industry to progress discussions on the future needs of jobs and skills for Australia to remain competitive in a global economy. * ACS Membership benefits at a glance... * Connection to the largest network of ICT professionals in Australia - over 23,000 members and 350 partners * Access to over 600 professional development, special industry groups and networking events <http://www.acs.org.au/networking-and-events> annually * Monthly branch forum executive presentations, knowledge-based seminars and workshops * MySFIA online self-assessment tool <http://www.acs.org.au/sfia-certification/mysfia> to determine skills profile and map a career pathway * Access to a digital library of more than 14,000 professional skills courses<http://www.acs.org.au/professional-development/online-courses> for career fast-tracking * Further education and study options including ACS short courses<http://www.acs.org.au/professional-development/Distance-Courses>, professional accreditation programs and post-graduate qualifications * Nationally-recognised Certification for ICT technologists and professionals<https://www.acs.org.au/sfia-certification/acs-certification> * ACS member rewards including discounted IT products and services and exclusive travel deals * Access to a digital magazine subscription for the PC & Tech Authority and Atomic <http://www.acs.org.au/my-acs/rewards/online-magazines> brands * A bi-monthly digital subscription to the ACS' Thought Leadership publication: Information Age<http://www.acs.org.au/information-resources/publications/information-age> * Access to select graduates from the ACS Scholarship Foundation the ACS job board <http://www.acs.org.au/accreditedcourses-and-jobs/job-search> for the latest ICT job opportunities * And many more benefits highlighted on our website www.acs.org.au/become-a-member/why<http://www.acs.org.au/become-a-member/why> From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Preet Sangha Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2016 9:23 AM To: ozDotNet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [OT] ACS - relevant? I think this might be of use to some people [Inline images 1] regards, Preet, in Auckland NZ On 2 March 2016 at 10:41, David Apelt <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I have enjoyed the conversation so far. ozDotNet is such a great forum. I would like to bring the conversation back on topic. I am not trying to be controversial here, I just want to know if my experiences mirror that of others. I have never seen the ACS speak in the media when there is an IT issue; like a security beach I have never seen the ACS speak publically about IT infrastructure; like the NBN DDLS, New Horizons, etc are great at advertising and promoting their courses. ACS never appear on my radar. I have never seen the ACS sponsor CeBit, TechEd, any local user groups, etc (Maybe they did... if they did, it was not very memorable) (this adds weight to my argument https://www.acs.org.au/networking-and-events/events/endorsed-events) I have never seen the ACS quoted, reposted, liked, etc on facebook, twitter, etc Is this the experience of others? Regards Dave From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Greg Low (??????) Sent: Tuesday, 1 March 2016 1:23 PM To: ozDotNet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: RE: [OT] ACS - relevant? But that's my point. Agreed, it's not necessarily anything to do with whether the project fails. We know that. It's the backside protection that is improved by the external certification, not necessarily the project outcome. That said, I do see a large number of projects that have in fact failed (or are perilously close to failing) through basic incompetence. It is a problem in our industry whether we want to face it or not. It's quite tiring to endlessly try to rectify the same sorts of basic problems. I really love work where it's "how should we tackle this development?" rather than "OMG, we're in such a mess. What do we do next?", when the panic sets in. The more this happens, the more likely that some form of regulation might occur, at least for sections of the industry. Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410<tel:%2B61%20419201410> mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913<tel:%2B61%203%208676%204913> fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 1 March 2016 12:52 PM To: ozDotNet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: RE: [OT] ACS - relevant? Do many IT projects fail because of the lack of externally certified competency? I'm not sure they do. I've seen projects fail because requirements were uncertain (or changed), or scope changed, or complexity was underestimated, or best effort "guesses" based on incomplete information at the time ended up being the wrong punt. Very few of these are "IT" problems - they are problems that come from the business, or in governance, and some are just plain bad luck. From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg Low (??????) Sent: Tuesday, 1 March 2016 11:02 AM To: ozDotNet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: RE: [OT] ACS - relevant? Almost agree Ken. I don't see having "professional" attributes as being related to whether or not IT projects fail. What I do see is a difference in the finger pointing when they fail. If I was the CEO responsible when an issue occurred, I'd feel more comfortable having used staff that an external body says are professional, rather than ones I assessed myself to be great at what they do. It avoids me being stuck with having to try to argue basic competence. And yes, point taken about common parlance. I have a friend who is a wheelbarrow mechanic and many who are sales engineers. Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410<tel:%2B61%20419201410> mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913<tel:%2B61%203%208676%204913> fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 1 March 2016 10:46 AM To: ozDotNet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: RE: [OT] ACS - relevant? Whilst you are right that Tony is conflating professionalism with desirable employee attributes, I think you're also conflating professionalism with "avoidance of high failure rates in IT projects" - there are many "professional" endeavours that have failures (whether it be accounting issues through to scientific experiments) which having a profession wouldn't suddenly mitigate: a lot of IT works a commercial sphere where "good enough" is the goal. There's plenty of other IT (utilities, aerospace, defence) where BAU failure is not tolerated. Certainly projects may go "over budget", but that happens in civil engineering, legal disputes and many other "professional" activities as well. And lastly, I think, in common parlance, "professional" and "white collar" have become conflated. Most people in the community would call marketing/advertising people, or human resources people, or vendor/contract management people, or people who work in finance to be "professionals", whereas by the formal definition, they're not. Cheers Ken From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg Low (??????) Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 10:05 PM To: ozDotNet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: RE: [OT] ACS - relevant? I follow what you're saying Tony but the two concepts are separate. You are describing what you are looking for in an employee. You might consider that "professionalism" but you are not actually describing what most other industries would describe as professionalism. In most industries, professionalism is about a formal agreement to adhere to a code of ethics, being qualified in the first place, maintaining appropriate certifications, carrying out ongoing learning, etc. And, more importantly, ejection from the profession if you don't do what's required. It's just that the IT industry places more value on a perceived ability to get something done. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but people that we consider to be IT professionals won't ever be regarded as such by most of the community, and we'll continue to see people that lurch from one disaster to the next with impunity. It's worth considering that very few other professions would tolerate the failure rate that's associated with IT projects. Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410<tel:%2B61%20419201410> mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913<tel:%2B61%203%208676%204913> fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/> From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tony Wright Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 9:54 PM To: ozDotNet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [OT] ACS - relevant? I somehow don't think being a member of the ACS suddenly gives you any more professionalism than any other person in the IT sector. In fact, having read resumes of hundreds of people I think I've only ever seen one that said they were a member of the ACS. But alas, that person did not have the skills we needed, so we had to pass. We were really looking for people who were emmersed in the technology and the best evidence of that was evidence of decent projects they'd worked on, attendance and speaking at user group meetings, and evidence of leadership. Certifications, sure, but not people who only knew how to do certs. And people with personality and the right attitude. T. On 29 Feb 2016 8:12 pm, "Peter Griffith" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Well put David B So I guess that means that IT cannot be regarded as a profession Bourne out by industry who seem more interested in experience rather than adherance to a professional code of ethics, code of conduct, code of practice. Is it unethical then for those working in IT to portray themselves as professionals?. On 29 February 2016 at 17:06, David Burstin <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Some points on relevance... I used to be an accountant. There are many professional bodies that cover accountants, each being relevant only to the area of accounting they specialize in. CPAs are not the same as Chartered Accountants, and it is natural and obvious as an accountant which body you should belong to based on the type of work you do. For example, a public accountant in a suburban practice doing individual, small trust and small company returns would be a CPA, not a Chartered Accountant. All of the questions you asked have different answers based on which body you belong to as an accountant. So, who does the ACS represent? Software engineers? Hardware engineers? Database administrators? And within these, there are massive subsets, each with vastly different and perhaps even opposing codes of conduct and practice. Would the ACS promote "break-nothing" (eg if you worked at a financial institution), or "break-everything" if you worked at Facebook? I am not and never have been a member of the ACS. I looked at it but could never see the relevance. The only advantage was having a few letters at the end of my name that no one seemed to care about. So instead I got some other letters that slightly more (and I do mean slightly more) people cared about (MCSD, MCT). The questions that you ask are spot-on for a representative professional body. I just don't feel that they apply to the ACS because who exactly does it represent - and if the answer is "computer professionals" then that is so vague as to be meaningless. That's my 2c. On 29 February 2016 at 17:21, Peter Griffith <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Cuppla more questions on relevance Do you subscribe to a professional code of ethics, code of conduct, code of practice? .Do you follow an on-going, coherent professional education process.? Are you accredited by any relevant, recognised, independent body, or by a Local, State or Federal government authority.? On 29 February 2016 at 16:30, Peter Griffith <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Do you belong to a professional body? On 29 February 2016 at 16:27, David Apelt <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Yes From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Peter Griffith Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 4:43 PM To: ozDotNet <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [OT] ACS - relevant? David, do you consider yourself to be an IT Professional? On 29 February 2016 at 15:35, DotNet Dude <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Haven''t even heard ACS since like 2000. Never comes up in interviews or any conversation at all from my experience. On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 3:50 PM, David Apelt <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: The only time I ever hear of the ASC (Australian Computer Society) is the punch line in bad IT jokes. But last night I had a Pakistani taxi driver who had just got his masters in IT. He spoke with enthusiasm about the ASC and how he was going to be paying them $12500 over the next year so that he could be accredited in IT. (!!) I just want to test the waters here; are the ASC relevant? Are they doing a good job? Does anyone ask for ACS accreditation during interviews? I am in Melbourne for work at the moment. Maybe it is a regional thing? -- Peter Griffith CP PH: 0408 832 891 -- Peter Griffith CP PH: 0408 832 891 -- Peter Griffith CP PH: 0408 832 891 -- Peter Griffith CP PH: 0408 832 891
