Point taken. I just have a problem with the whole idea that because someone is a member of a professional body it is supposed to make them competent. In 20 years I have only once seen a job that specifically said ACS was desired and that was for a government job. Which kind of means it is certainly approaching irrelevancy for me at least. On 29 Feb 2016 10:05 pm, "Greg Low (罗格雷格博士)" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I follow what you’re saying Tony but the two concepts are separate. > > > > You are describing what you are looking for in an employee. You might > consider that “professionalism” but you are not actually describing what > most other industries would describe as professionalism. In most > industries, professionalism is about a formal agreement to adhere to a code > of ethics, being qualified in the first place, maintaining appropriate > certifications, carrying out ongoing learning, etc. And, more importantly, > ejection from the profession if you don’t do what’s required. > > > > It’s just that the IT industry places more value on a perceived ability to > get something done. > > > > There’s nothing wrong with that per se, but people that we consider to be > IT professionals won’t ever be regarded as such by most of the community, > and we’ll continue to see people that lurch from one disaster to the next > with impunity. It’s worth considering that very few other professions would > tolerate the failure rate that’s associated with IT projects. > > > > Regards, > > > > Greg > > > > Dr Greg Low > > > > 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 > fax > > SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Tony Wright > *Sent:* Monday, 29 February 2016 9:54 PM > *To:* ozDotNet <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [OT] ACS - relevant? > > > > I somehow don't think being a member of the ACS suddenly gives you any > more professionalism than any other person in the IT sector. In fact, > having read resumes of hundreds of people I think I've only ever seen one > that said they were a member of the ACS. But alas, that person did not have > the skills we needed, so we had to pass. We were really looking for people > who were emmersed in the technology and the best evidence of that was > evidence of decent projects they'd worked on, attendance and speaking at > user group meetings, and evidence of leadership. Certifications, sure, but > not people who only knew how to do certs. And people with personality and > the right attitude. > > T. > > On 29 Feb 2016 8:12 pm, "Peter Griffith" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Well put David B > > > > So I guess that means that IT cannot be regarded as a profession > > > > Bourne out by industry who seem more interested in experience rather than > adherance to a professional code of ethics, code of conduct, code of > practice. > > > > Is it unethical then for those working in IT to portray themselves as > professionals?. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 29 February 2016 at 17:06, David Burstin <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Some points on relevance... > > > > I used to be an accountant. There are many professional bodies that cover > accountants, each being relevant only to the area of accounting they > specialize in. CPAs are not the same as Chartered Accountants, and it is > natural and obvious as an accountant which body you should belong to based > on the type of work you do. For example, a public accountant in a suburban > practice doing individual, small trust and small company returns would be a > CPA, not a Chartered Accountant. > > > > All of the questions you asked have different answers based on which body > you belong to as an accountant. > > > > So, who does the ACS represent? Software engineers? Hardware engineers? > Database administrators? And within these, there are massive subsets, each > with vastly different and perhaps even opposing codes of conduct and > practice. Would the ACS promote "break-nothing" (eg if you worked at a > financial institution), or "break-everything" if you worked at Facebook? > > > > I am not and never have been a member of the ACS. I looked at it but could > never see the relevance. The only advantage was having a few letters at the > end of my name that no one seemed to care about. So instead I got some > other letters that slightly more (and I do mean slightly more) people cared > about (MCSD, MCT). > > > > The questions that you ask are spot-on for a representative professional > body. I just don't feel that they apply to the ACS because who exactly does > it represent - and if the answer is "computer professionals" then that is > so vague as to be meaningless. > > > > That's my 2c. > > > > On 29 February 2016 at 17:21, Peter Griffith <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Cuppla more questions on relevance > > > > Do you subscribe to a professional code of ethics, code of conduct, code > of practice? > > *.*Do you follow an on-going, coherent professional education process.? > > Are you accredited by any relevant, recognised, independent body, or by a > Local, State or Federal government authority.? > > > > On 29 February 2016 at 16:30, Peter Griffith <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Do you belong to a professional body? > > > > On 29 February 2016 at 16:27, David Apelt <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yes > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Peter Griffith > *Sent:* Monday, 29 February 2016 4:43 PM > *To:* ozDotNet <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [OT] ACS - relevant? > > > > David, do you consider yourself to be an IT Professional? > > > > On 29 February 2016 at 15:35, DotNet Dude <[email protected]> wrote: > > Haven''t even heard ACS since like 2000. Never comes up in interviews or > any conversation at all from my experience. > > > > On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 3:50 PM, David Apelt <[email protected]> > wrote: > > The only time I ever hear of the ASC (Australian Computer Society) is the > punch line in bad IT jokes. > > > > But last night I had a Pakistani taxi driver who had just got his masters > in IT. He spoke with enthusiasm about the ASC and how he was going to be > paying them $12500 over the next year so that he could be accredited in IT. > (!!) > > > > I just want to test the waters here; are the ASC relevant? Are they doing > a good job? Does anyone ask for ACS accreditation during interviews? > > > > I am in Melbourne for work at the moment. Maybe it is a regional thing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Peter Griffith CP > PH: 0408 832 891 > > > > > > -- > > Peter Griffith CP > PH: 0408 832 891 > > > > > > -- > > Peter Griffith CP > PH: 0408 832 891 > > > > > > > > -- > > Peter Griffith CP > PH: 0408 832 891 > >
