> And I think that for a graduate visa, there is now a
> requirement of this ACS Professional Year Program
Really? If so: What a scam.
Rent seeking should be opposed in all of its forms. In my opinion, it's
fantastic that IT (unlike most others) has been able to resist capture
by some self-appointed body of "betters".
Cheers
Les
On 29/02/16 23:10, Yann VINCENT wrote:
The ACS certification can be important/required regarding immigration
process.
For a skilled visa, I had to get a skills assessment from ACS for
instance. And I think that for a graduate visa, there is now a
requirement of this ACS Professional Year Program
<https://www.acs.org.au/news-and-media/news/2013/acs-announces-graduate-skills-assessment-application-process-changes>.
2016-02-29 21:54 GMT+10:00 Tony Wright <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
Point taken. I just have a problem with the whole idea that because
someone is a member of a professional body it is supposed to make
them competent. In 20 years I have only once seen a job that
specifically said ACS was desired and that was for a government job.
Which kind of means it is certainly approaching irrelevancy for me
at least.
On 29 Feb 2016 10:05 pm, "Greg Low (罗格雷格博士)" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I follow what you’re saying Tony but the two concepts are
separate. ____
__ __
You are describing what you are looking for in an employee. You
might consider that “professionalism” but you are not actually
describing what most other industries would describe as
professionalism. In most industries, professionalism is about a
formal agreement to adhere to a code of ethics, being qualified
in the first place, maintaining appropriate certifications,
carrying out ongoing learning, etc. And, more importantly,
ejection from the profession if you don’t do what’s required.____
__ __
It’s just that the IT industry places more value on a perceived
ability to get something done. ____
__ __
There’s nothing wrong with that per se, but people that we
consider to be IT professionals won’t ever be regarded as such
by most of the community, and we’ll continue to see people that
lurch from one disaster to the next with impunity. It’s worth
considering that very few other professions would tolerate the
failure rate that’s associated with IT projects.____
__ __
Regards,____
__ __
Greg____
__ __
Dr Greg Low____
__ __
1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775 <tel:%281300%20775%20775>) office | +61
419201410 <tel:%2B61%20419201410> mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913
<tel:%2B61%203%208676%204913> fax ____
SQL Down Under| Web:
www.sqldownunder.com<http://www.sqldownunder.com/>____
__ __
*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Tony Wright
*Sent:* Monday, 29 February 2016 9:54 PM
*To:* ozDotNet <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Subject:* Re: [OT] ACS - relevant?____
__ __
I somehow don't think being a member of the ACS suddenly gives
you any more professionalism than any other person in the IT
sector. In fact, having read resumes of hundreds of people I
think I've only ever seen one that said they were a member of
the ACS. But alas, that person did not have the skills we
needed, so we had to pass. We were really looking for people who
were emmersed in the technology and the best evidence of that
was evidence of decent projects they'd worked on, attendance and
speaking at user group meetings, and evidence of leadership.
Certifications, sure, but not people who only knew how to do
certs. And people with personality and the right attitude. ____
T.____
On 29 Feb 2016 8:12 pm, "Peter Griffith"
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:____
Well put David B____
__ __
So I guess that means that IT cannot be regarded as a
profession ____
__ __
Bourne out by industry who seem more interested in
experience rather than adherance to a professional code of
ethics, code of conduct, code of practice.____
__ __
Is it unethical then for those working in IT to portray
themselves as professionals?.____
__ __
__ __
__ __
__ __
__ __
On 29 February 2016 at 17:06, David Burstin
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:____
Some points on relevance...____
__ __
I used to be an accountant. There are many professional
bodies that cover accountants, each being relevant only
to the area of accounting they specialize in. CPAs are
not the same as Chartered Accountants, and it is natural
and obvious as an accountant which body you should
belong to based on the type of work you do. For example,
a public accountant in a suburban practice doing
individual, small trust and small company returns would
be a CPA, not a Chartered Accountant. ____
__ __
All of the questions you asked have different answers
based on which body you belong to as an accountant.____
__ __
So, who does the ACS represent? Software engineers?
Hardware engineers? Database administrators? And within
these, there are massive subsets, each with vastly
different and perhaps even opposing codes of conduct and
practice. Would the ACS promote "break-nothing" (eg if
you worked at a financial institution), or
"break-everything" if you worked at Facebook?____
__ __
I am not and never have been a member of the ACS. I
looked at it but could never see the relevance. The only
advantage was having a few letters at the end of my name
that no one seemed to care about. So instead I got some
other letters that slightly more (and I do mean slightly
more) people cared about (MCSD, MCT).____
__ __
The questions that you ask are spot-on for a
representative professional body. I just don't feel that
they apply to the ACS because who exactly does it
represent - and if the answer is "computer
professionals" then that is so vague as to be
meaningless.____
__ __
That's my 2c.____
__ __
On 29 February 2016 at 17:21, Peter Griffith
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____
Cuppla more questions on relevance____
__ __
Do you subscribe to a professional code of ethics,
code of conduct, code of practice?____
/./Do you follow an on-going, coherent professional
education process.?____
Are you accredited by any relevant, recognised,
independent body, or by a Local, State or Federal
government authority.?____
__ __
On 29 February 2016 at 16:30, Peter Griffith
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____
Do you belong to a professional body?____
__ __
On 29 February 2016 at 16:27, David Apelt
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____
Yes____
____
*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On
Behalf Of *Peter Griffith
*Sent:* Monday, 29 February 2016 4:43 PM
*To:* ozDotNet <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Subject:* Re: [OT] ACS - relevant?____
____
David, do you consider yourself to be an IT
Professional?____
____
On 29 February 2016 at 15:35, DotNet Dude
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____
Haven''t even heard ACS since like 2000.
Never comes up in interviews or any
conversation at all from my experience.____
____
On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 3:50 PM, David
Apelt <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:____
The only time I ever hear of the ASC
(Australian Computer Society) is the
punch line in bad IT jokes.____
____
But last night I had a Pakistani
taxi driver who had just got his
masters in IT. He spoke with
enthusiasm about the ASC and how he
was going to be paying them $12500
over the next year so that he could
be accredited in IT. (!!)____
____
I just want to test the waters here;
are the ASC relevant? Are they doing
a good job? Does anyone ask for ACS
accreditation during interviews? ____
____
I am in Melbourne for work at the
moment. Maybe it is a regional
thing?____
____
____
____
____
____
____
-- ____
Peter Griffith CP
PH: 0408 832 891 <tel:0408%20832%20891> ____
____
__ __
-- ____
Peter Griffith CP
PH: 0408 832 891 <tel:0408%20832%20891> ____
____
__ __
-- ____
Peter Griffith CP
PH: 0408 832 891 <tel:0408%20832%20891> ____
__ __
____
__ __
-- ____
Peter Griffith CP
PH: 0408 832 891 <tel:0408%20832%20891> ____
--
Yann VINCENT
Unit 22, 159 Merthyr Road
New Farm, QLD, 4005
Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Mobile: 0424 587 150
