I wouldn't say it is particularly important to me but I have taken an
interest in human evolution since my schooldays. I suppose that living in
this part of the world where Sterkfontein is considered the most likely
origin of hominids and also the fact that the San are an ancient family of
man still living in an iron age time warp in parts of Namibia & Botswana are
major factors. Sadly, the San have all been "contaminated" to some degree by
contact with "civilisation". Most San were killed off by the advancing Nguni
tribes in the middle ages. Their rock art is their legacy & shows how they
lived in harmony with nature. The San (like the natives of North America)
are the rightful owners of the land but get scant recognition nor does their
language which has all but died out.
Alan C
-----Original Message-----
From: knarf
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 5:39 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor
While I find that subject to be mildly interesting, it's really of no
consequence to me who our common ancestor is. It seems very important to
you. Would you mind telling us why?
Thanks,
frank
On November 26, 2015 10:28:06 AM EST, Alan C <c...@lantic.net> wrote:
Identifying a common ancestor.
Alan C
-----Original Message-----
From: knarf
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 3:15 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor
The key to what?
Cheers,
frank
On November 26, 2015 7:58:51 AM EST, Alan C <c...@lantic.net> wrote:
Sorry, I didn't realize. O.K. - you can have a nice cup of Rooibos tea
instead.
It look as if DNA studies will be the key. Chimps, Bonobos & Humans
share
about 70% of their DNA. There are variations between human population
groups
too but there is an incredible web of interbreeding & migration still
to be
unravelled. Those who think the Neanderthals became extinct have it
all
wrong - just look at the front rows of rugby scrums!
Alan C
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob W-PDML
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 2:19 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor
That won't do my gout any good.
B
On 26 Nov 2015, at 12:02, Alan C <c...@lantic.net> wrote:
Cheddarmelt steak, two eggs, mopane worms & chips fried in lard.
Alan C
-----Original Message----- From: Bob W
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:43 PM
To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'
Subject: RE: PESO - The Protestor
I'm not as strong-willed as Frank, so I don't mind answering this
because
I'm curious to see where it's going.
Humans are most closely related to common chimps and to bonobos.
Since
common chimps and bonobos diverged after humans diverged we are
equally
closely related to both.
Jared Diamond wrote an excellent book called The Rise and Fall of
the
Third
Chimpanzee in which he argues for the rights of the (other) great
apes,
and
talks about the closeness of humans and chimps. It's quite an old
book now
so some of the human ancestry stuff is probably outdated, but it is
still
an
excellent read.
The question of the most recent common ancestor of humans and chimps
does
not seem to have been settled yet. There are several candidates, but
discoveries seem to happen so often that before the ink is dry on
the
latest
paper someone announces another candidate.
I don't think there's any reason to suppose we'll ever identify The
One.
There seems to have been a very complex and rapid set of speciations
happening around the estimated time of the split. Even if fossils
are
found
of The One it may be difficult to prove among all the other
candidates,
but
we'll probably have a reasonably accurate idea of the type of
creature it
was.
The current candidates include Orrorin tugenensis from Kenya, and
Sahelanthropus tchadensis, but there are so many different theories
that
somebody like me who just follows the subject from a distance would
be
unwise to say 'this is the one'. Having watched from the sidelines
for
about
40 years and seen so many apparently strong candidates sidelined I
wouldn't
even hazard a guess.
Can I have my surprise now?
B
-----Original Message-----
From: PDML [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Alan C
Sent: Thursday, 26 November, 2015 5:06 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <pdml@pdml.net>
Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor
Go on, I dare you, be a devil. Do some research. You may be
surprised
what
you find.
Alan C
-----Original Message-----
From: knarf
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:52 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor
I have no idea which other great ape is "closest" to humans. I
suppose it
would be either chimps or bonobos but that's just a non-scientific
feeling.
My opinion really doesn't mean much.
Whoever the common ancestor of the great apes was, is not a matter
of
opinion. However I have no idea who that might be. Paleontology is
not an
area that I have much expertise, or for that matter, interest in.
Cheers,
frank
On November 25, 2015 10:40:52 PM EST, Alan C <c...@lantic.net>
wrote:
>You're right. Perhaps "living cousins" would have been better.
>"Genetically
>we're close to chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans" - which,
in
>your opinion is closest to humans? Do you have an opinion as to
who
the
>common ancestor may have been. "I have to say, I rather feel as if
I'm
>being cross-examined here, as if you're moving toward a
conclusion,
or
>tying to trap me in some way" - not really, I'm trying to
establish
a
>common base so we can further our discourse.
>
>Alan C
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: knarf
>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:10 PM
>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor
>
>I don't understand your question. We don't have any "living
ancestors"
>in
>evolutionary terms.
>
>As I said earlier, we're great apes, so genetically we're close to
>chimps, bonobos, gorillas and orangutans. But they aren't
ancestors
or
>somehow "below" us. We share a common ancestor and each species
has
>evolved differently to where we are today.
>
>I have to say, I rather feel as if I'm being cross-examined here,
as if
>
>you're moving toward a conclusion, or tying to trap me in some
way.
>
>Could we get to the point please?
>
>Thanks,
>
>frank
>
>On November 25, 2015 11:08:57 AM EST, Alan C <c...@lantic.net>
wrote:
>>Which are our closest living ancestors or perhaps those most like
us?
>>
>>Alan C
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: knarf
>>Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 4:57 PM
>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>Subject: Re: PESO - The Protestor
>>
>>I'm not sure exactly what you mean, however humans are animals,
great
>>apes to be exact, and like every other animal on the face of the
>>earth, we have evolved from ancestors to our current form.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>frank
>>
>>
>>
>>On November 25, 2015 9:41:37 AM EST, Alan C <c...@lantic.net>
wrote:
>>>Do you consider humans to be part of the evolutionary scale?
>>>
>>>Alan C
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