Dear Edwina, list:
J Well, you’re not wrong but you’re not quite right, either. If words were merely birds, would we not simply just move on with the limits of our world? That is, what is "syllogism", a word? I have recently been working through Aristotle’s *Organon*. I played with the syllogism in context of CP 5.189 and discovered its many hidden fruits. I would recommend others on the list to submit themselves to Peirce’s greatest gift and discover on your own that “activity of thought by which we are carried, not where we wish, but to a fore-ordained goal.” With best wishes, Jerry Rhee On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> wrote: > Jerry - I'm sure you are joking. The format of a syllogism is: > Major Premise > Minor Premise > Conclusion > ...with the additional format rules about 'universal', distribution, > negatives, etc etc..' Nothing to do with words per se. > > Words are meaningful, in my view, only in specific contexts; they gain > their meaning within the context...and the context operates within a format. > > Edwina > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jerry Rhee <[email protected]> > *To:* Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> > *Cc:* John Collier <[email protected]> ; Benjamin Udell > <[email protected]> ; Peirce-L <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2017 2:02 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PEIRCE-L] Nominalism vs. Realism - > > Dear Edwina, list: > > When you say it's not the words but the format that counts; is that like > saying, it's not the argumentation but the argument that counts? > > For example, do you mean that it's CP 5.189 that counts and not C A B? > But what is CP 5.189 without C A B? > And what is C, A, B, without > syllogism, CP 5.189, growth of concrete reasonableness? > pragmatic maxim, CP 5.189, growth of concrete reasonableness? > > That is, if I were only to take you literally, then I could ask, > > *Among all words, is there a word?* > > Best, > Jerry Rhee > > On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Sorry, Jerry, I don't agree. It's not the words; it's the format that >> counts. People think, not so much in words, but in images and diagrams .... >> >> Edwina >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Jerry Rhee <[email protected]> >> *To:* Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> >> *Cc:* John Collier <[email protected]> ; Benjamin Udell >> <[email protected]> ; Peirce-L <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2017 1:25 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [PEIRCE-L] Nominalism vs. Realism - >> >> Dear list: >> >> >> >> If words are only birds, then: >> >> >> >> “CP 5.189 is NOT a syllogism!” >> >> >> >> “CP 5.189 is not *the* pragmatic maxim, nor even *a* pragmatic maxim in >> the same sense, so it is certainly not *the best* pragmatic maxim.” >> >> >> >> 5.6 The limits of my language mean the limits of my world. ~Tractatus >> >> >> >> Best, Jerry R >> >> On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 8:16 AM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Very nice comments, John. I fully agree: 'words are birds' - and some of >>> the focus on this list on 'this word' having 'just that meaning' has been, >>> in my view, unfruitful...because it ignores what's going on within that >>> semiosic action. >>> >>> Edwina >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* John Collier <[email protected]> >>> *To:* Benjamin Udell <[email protected]> ; [email protected] >>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:40 PM >>> *Subject:* RE: [PEIRCE-L] Nominalism vs. Realism - >>> >>> Interesting, Ben. How words change in meaning and connotation. Although >>> mist of the negative references are to the medical use, some of them >>> certainly apply to a sort of (Francis) Baconian science. Thanks for posting >>> this. >>> >>> >>> >>> As I said, I was referring to the method, not the word. As my Tai Chi >>> master was fond of saying, “Words are birds”, and he changed the meanings >>> for basic movements just to help us focus on what really mattered. >>> >>> >>> >>> Interesting that some of the definitions have the modern meaning of both >>> evidence and meanings being grounded in the senses, but still have negative >>> connotations. I suppose that the rise of positivism in the late 1800s was >>> somewhat instrumental in (slowly) changing attitudes. Full blown logical >>> empiricism arises only with verificationism, which I think was the biggest >>> error ever made by otherwise sensible philosophers. We are still suffering >>> the consequences. I hasten to add that, although he was sometimes read that >>> way (perhaps, for example, by Rescher and Putnam) Peirce was no >>> verificationist. We see remnants in opposition views to logical positivism >>> that try to reduce things to social phenomena, which I see as making >>> precisely the same error. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am no empiricist in this modern sense, the one I contrasted with >>> rationalism originally in this thread. >>> >>> >>> >>> John Collier >>> >>> Emeritus Professor and Senior Research Associate >>> >>> Philosophy, University of KwaZulu-Natal >>> >>> http://web.ncf.ca/collier >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Benjamin Udell [mailto:[email protected]] >>> *Sent:* Saturday, 11 February 2017 10:35 PM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Subject:* Re: [PEIRCE-L] Nominalism vs. Realism - >>> >>> >>> >>> Even in the days of the Century Dictionary (late 19th to early 20th >>> Century), "empiric" and "empirical" had rather negative connotations. See >>> the definitions of "empiric," "empirical," and related terms that I >>> compiled at a website some years ago: >>> >>> http://peircematters.blogspot.com/#empir >>> >>> So empiricists in the modern sense would not have been fond of calling >>> themselves "empiricists" way back when. >>> >>> Best, Ben >>> >>> On 2/11/2017 2:06 PM, John Collier wrote: >>> >>> The reference is to the method, not the word. There is an historical >>> continuity between the Medieval empiricists like Roger Bacon, and Galen’s >>> followers (he died about 299 AD (who go back to Arabic predecessors, >>> perhaps influenced by Galen – medical usage, of course, but he seemed to >>> extend it in his views of the natural world) and the later ones who came >>> to called The British Empiricists, though not by that name at that time. On >>> source puts the general use of the modern accepted sense at 1796, well >>> after the British Empiricists. >>> >>> Typical definition: >>> >>> empiricist >>> ɛmˈpɪrɪsɪst/ >>> PHILOSOPHY >>> noun >>> 1. >>> a person who supports the theory that all knowledge is based on >>> experience derived from the senses. >>> "most scientists are empiricists by nature" >>> adjective >>> 1. >>> relating to or characteristic of the theory that all knowledge is based >>> on experience derived from the senses. >>> "his radically empiricist view of science as a direct engagement with >>> the world" >>> >>> The term in its present form originated in 1660-70; some say about 1700. >>> If you think that words determine thoughts, than there was no empiricism >>> except in medicine before these dates. >>> >>> Aristotle had some things I common with empiricists, but his requirement >>> for a rationalist/ essentialist middle term undermined that because it >>> required the active nour. The Medieval ones gave that up. But so did many >>> of the stoics, who were therefore empiricists. >>> >>> The term goes back to the Greeks, not that I think that some magic >>> connects terms to ideas: >>> >>> Etymology >>> The English term empirical derives from the Greek word ἐμπειρία, >>> empeiria, which is cognate with and translates to the Latin experientia, >>> from which are derived the word experience and the related experiment. The >>> term was used by the Empiric school of ancient Greek medical practitioners, >>> who rejected the three doctrines of the Dogmatic school, preferring to rely >>> on the observation of "phenomena".[5] >>> >>> NB the restriction to medicine here, similar to the early restriction of >>> semiotics to medicine. >>> >>> Peirce relevance: Peirce is usually included among those who tried to >>> combine elements of empiricism and rationalism, though for my money he >>> doesn’t fit either camp very well >>> >>> In any case, the recent attempts on this list to try to tie empiricism >>> to the use of the word are pretty poor examples of scholarship. >>> >>> John Collier >>> Emeritus Professor and Senior Research Associate Philosophy, University >>> of KwaZulu-Natal http://web.ncf.ca/collier >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] >>> <[email protected]>] >>> > Sent: Saturday, 11 February 2017 5:58 PM >>> > To: Jerry LR Chandler <[email protected]> >>> <[email protected]> >>> > Cc: Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> <[email protected]>; John >>> Collier >>> > <[email protected]> <[email protected]>; Peirce-L >>> <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >>> > Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Nominalism vs. Realism - >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> ----------------------------- >>> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >>> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >>> [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to >>> PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe >>> PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at >>> http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----------------------------- >>> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >>> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >>> [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to >>> PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe >>> PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at >>> http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> ----------------------------- >> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >> [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L >> but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the >> BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce >> -l/peirce-l.htm . >> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------ > > > ----------------------------- > PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to > [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L > but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the > BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm > . > > > > >
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