Edwina, List: I am not the one claiming to be defining and applying "*THE* Peircean analytic framework." As spelled out in his texts, there is much more to it than "using the three categories in both their genuine and degenerate modes" and/or "using the triadic semiosic process to show both necessary and adaptive interactions." What exactly are "the three categories"? What exactly are "their genuine and degenerate modes"? What exactly is "the triadic semiosic process"? How exactly is it supposedly being manifested in the specific phenomenon that is under examination? As the saying goes, the devil is in the details.
Regards, Jon S. On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 9:00 PM Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> wrote: > JAS, list > > Then the question I ask is - what is the definition of THE Peircean > analytic framework? > > That is, what if someone is examining the semiosic processes of a wetlands > or a meadow, and examining the interactions among all the myriad species in > these areas - using the three categories in both their genuine and > degenerate modes, using the triadic semiosic process to show both necessary > and adaptive interactions.....would you say that this is only a > 'Peircean-inspired-analytic framework.....because Peirce himself never > carried out such a use of his framework? > > Edwina > > On Sun 17/10/21 7:48 PM , Jon Alan Schmidt jonalanschm...@gmail.com sent: > > Edwina, List: > > ET: I think it's a sidestep red herring to claim that Gary F did not > describe the person of Robert Marty as 'post-Peircean' but was referring > to Marty's thoughts and analysis. > > > Like I already said, I personally find such labels counterproductive and > try to avoid them since they tend to distract participants from the substance > of the discussion. > > ET: And that's one of the problems of this list - this definition of the > thoughts of someone who is using the analytic framework of Peirce as > somehow 'impure' or 'degenerate' with claims that Peirce 'didn't use those > words' etc. > > > It is not a matter of whether a given analytic framework is "somehow > 'impure' or 'degenerate,'" but whether it is truly Peirce's analytic > framework. Terminology is important, but the issue is really whether concepts > are being deployed in way that is congruent with how Peirce himself > defines and uses them. If not, it might very well be a Peircean analytic > framework, or at least a Peirce-inspired analytic framework, but it is > not the Peircean analytic framework. > > ET: I'm claiming such a final step is impossible because semiosis has no > final point. > > > Yes and no. According to Peirce, every text is a sign. Consequently, every > text has a final interpretant--how it necessarily would be understood > under ideal circumstances. Every text also has an immediate > interpretant--how it possibly could be understood in accordance with the > definitions of the words that comprise it, along with their arrangement in > accordance with the syntax and other rules of grammar for the system of > signs in which it is expressed. The result of any individual reading of a > text is a dynamical interpretant--how it actually is understood on that > particular occasion, which for any sincere inquirer is an > abductive/retroductive hypothesis about the final interpretant as the > proper aim of interpretation. > > In order to be a valid understanding of the text, this dynamical > interpretant must be consistent with the immediate interpretant; and in > order to be an accurate understanding of the text, it must conform to the > final interpretant. Of course, all dynamical interpretants are fallible, so > we can never be absolutely certain that our understanding matches the > final interpretant. Nevertheless, we can ascertain when a particular > understanding is inconsistent with the immediate interpretant, and is > thus objectively invalid; and in such cases, we can also say with > confidence that such an understanding does not conform to the final > interpretant, and is thus objectively inaccurate--it is a misunderstanding, > a misinterpretation. > > Surely we agree that such misunderstanding and misinterpretation are > possible--in fact, all too common in human discourse. Peirce's semeiotic > provides this plausible explanation for those phenomena. While it is true > that "semiosis has no final point" in the sense of a last actual sign, it > does have a "final point" in the sense of a telos or ideal aim as I have > described here. Otherwise, why bother trying to communicate at all? > > Regards, > > Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA > Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian > www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt > > On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 5:24 PM Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> > wrote: > >> JAS, list >> >> I think it's a sidestep red herring to claim that Gary F did not describe >> the person of Robert Marty as 'post-Peircean' but was referring to >> Marty's thoughts and analysis. After all - if we were to actually call a >> person a 'post-Peircean' - what exactly would we be saying?? That he >> lives after 1914? The fact is - that the thoughts and analysis were called >> 'post-Peircean'. >> >> And that's one of the problems of this list - this definition of the >> thoughts of someone who is using the analytic framework of Peirce as >> somehow 'impure' or 'degenerate' with claims that Peirce 'didn't use those >> words' etc. After all - what does 'post-Peircean' actually mean? Does it >> mean an incorrect reading of the text? I've repeatedly said that we have to >> be VERY careful of our readings of texts - because ALL readings are not >> dyadic mirrors of the text or author's mind. Instead - they are our own >> interpretations - and we surely are aware of how varied such readings of >> the SAME texts can be. We cannot yet, if ever declare that one particular >> interpretation is The Final and Correct One. >> >> Therefore - I would also be against your suggestion that we should not >> move into applying Peirce's analytic framework to other fields - before we >> have declared what his work 'actually is'. I'm claiming such a final step >> is impossible because semiosis has no final point. >> >> Edwina >> >
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