My point about the resources were rather an answer to Richard's reaction, as I understood it. Otherwise, I share the view of "more project is better than no projects, even if they duplicate". :)
The matter of community definition is a hard one, indeed. To my view we have two different purposes for defining it. First, it's when it comes to any kind of elections. Second, when it comes to distribution of information. Your focus on commit bits is rather related to to the first purpose, as I consider it. But if we think of the second one then wider meaning of community as "all devs using Raku and following its development" would be sufficient and will simplify the task of establishing a channel. Say, we choose to start an official blog (https://news.raku.org perhaps?). It would be under the control of Raku Steering Council. I.e., only RSC decides what is posted there. Technical and organizational implementation details are currently irrelevant. Not only the blog could inform about new releases, administrative actions, but anyone can send a request for posting something, they consider relevant and worthwhile mentioning officially. A new documentation project could be among such topics. Best regards, Vadim Belman > On Mar 14, 2021, at 3:25 AM, JJ Merelo <jjmer...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I don't think it's a duplication (or, as might be the case, triplication) of > resources, or a waste of resources. I learned early on that the "resources" > of the community is not, as in a company, a pool with a constant value from > which you, as in yourself, can draw to push forward your favorite project. On > the contrary, it falls on you to try and steer anyone's favorite project in a > direction that could help *your* favorite project, and also to prop up your > project so that it's open to contributions in a way that don't break or > derail it. That's the best you can do. Also, a community with three or four > projects in the same direction (documentation or whatever) is a great > community; at the end of the day, you can profit from all three, even if it's > in a tiny detail or simply on the effort put into implementing a standard. > That said, the initial problem still stands: there's no way to make the whole > community know something that might be important, such as the doc site > dropping from some parts of the internet, or an adoption drive for some > community module, really, whatever. Voting for the RSC... And that's got > several sub-problems > 1. We need to define community. If it's someone with a commit bit in every > repo of the 5 (yes 5) Raku organizations, well, that's a tall order. There > are myriad teams, some people have a commit bit just in one repo. And then > this excludes people who contribute to the community in a different way, from > organizing challenges to curating subreddits through answering questions in > StackOverflow. > 2. Even if you include all and everyone, you need to define what would go > into that channel. As in a logging system, you need to define the severity of > the issue to make the channel really relevant and actionnable. That, of > course, goes against the fact that it needs to be open to everyone, and also > interactive. > 3. There's no single communication channel that's a) used by everyone and b) > accessed by everyone on a hourly, or even daily, basis. > > So there's really no solution to your problem, other than try and tell > everyone, many times, in different channels, whatever the heck you're > interested on, and it will eventually grab the attention of the stakeholders > (and don't have me defining stakeholders...). > > I really appreciate everyone's contributions, I really do. So heartfelt > thanks to all :-) > > Cheers > > JJ > > El sáb, 13 mar 2021 a las 23:27, Vadim Belman (<vr...@lflat.org > <mailto:vr...@lflat.org>>) escribió: > > I would like to make an important note here. Up to my knowledge, the new > documentation site project is personal initiative of Alexander (Altai-man) of > which nobody of RSC members was informed about. For this reason it is rather > unlikely that any notification would be issued on any official channel, would > such one existed. I personally got to know about it the moment Alexander > posted his request for help on IRC. > > Apparently, the above paragraph doesn't say that we don't need an official > channel of a kind. I was asking a similar question ~1.5yr ago. As it is with > many other matters, this one needed some time to gain momentum. Perhaps, the > time has come to get it answered. > > Concerning the accidental duplication of projects, aside of the fact that it > is dissipation of scarce community resources, the good side is that there > will be two options to choose from. I will be happy to see both project > launched. One could eventually become part of the official site, the other > may be ran independently. One way or another I hope there will be more gains > from it than loses. > > Best regards, > Vadim Belman > > > On Mar 13, 2021, at 2:21 AM, Richard Hainsworth <rnhainswo...@gmail.com > > <mailto:rnhainswo...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > This is a request to the Raku Coordinating Council that was elected at the > > end of last year. > > > > Please name a channel where community wide plans or announcements are made. > > Or may be establish one. > > > > I found out yesterday by the intervention of a regular participant in the > > community that a new documentation website is being worked on. > > > > I joined a conversation on the raku-dev IRC and discovered that the plans > > are quite far established. Since I have been working full-time for three > > months on a project that could (not should!!) serve as the infra-structure > > of a new site, I was really quite surprised and I am sure many of you will > > understand it was jarring. > > > > I follow all the conversations on this email list. I have found it very > > difficult (due to my own technical incompetence relating to github) to set > > up my github preferences to get regular notification about issues. I have > > also found that the IRC chats are streams of consciousness that are > > difficult for me to manage. > > > > It seems however, that it is my fault that I was taken by surprise by the > > news of a different documentation website and that I should have been > > following all the issues on the documentation repo or the problem solving > > repo. > > > > It *IS* reasonable for Raku developers and community organisers to make it > > the responsibility of a participant to follow conversations, but I would > > suggest that the current scattering of conversations, on the IRC chat, > > various github repositories, this email list, is not *optimal* for the > > development of a coherent Raku community. It is also - I would suggest - a > > waste of human resources if the same objectives are pursued by multiple > > enthusiasts without any coordination or communication. > > > > If the Raku Council were to designate some channel, whether its an email > > list, an IRC chat, or a github repo, or maybe a discord or slack or other > > channel as the main community resource, then I would make sure I could read > > all the messages there and stay in touch with what is happening. > > > > Hence my request to the Raku council to consider improving communication > > between developers and the wider Raku community. > > > > Regards > > > > Richard Hainsworth > > > > aka finanalyst > > > > > > > > -- > JJ
