On 25 May 2011 20:45, Hilaire Fernandes <hilaire.fernan...@gmail.com> wrote: > I have no idea how hard it is to pass the apple check. > It can indeed temper any effort doing a theme. > I think that i can express Apple's policy using single statement: - why you using language X for your project, if you can implement same in Objective C.
:) > Hilaire > > Le 25/05/2011 18:29, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >> Sorry, but no, this is not an option. >> A theme will never pass the apple quality check :( >> >> Esteban >> >> El 25/05/2011, a las 1:22p.m., Hilaire Fernandes escribió: >> >>> A third option could be to build a polymorph theme for iPAD. >>> This is an intermediate option I discussed a bit with Bert, to do a >>> DrGeo port for iPAD. >>> Frankly speaking if someone is interested to work with me on that >>> direction we may be able to produce something in our range and useful >>> for the community at large. >>> >>> Hilaire >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 25/05/2011 18:01, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit : >>>> Well... I'm going to use this post to talk a bit about Pharo in iOS, >>>> because it is more complex than "having a vm working" >>>> But first, a summary of where we stand: >>>> 1) The Stack VM is working with iPhone/iPad, but needs some minor >>>> adjustments (some tuning). >>>> One problem here is that I didn't integrate it to CMakeVMMaker (and as a >>>> consequence, to hudson), so build it is not a trivial task. But I will, as >>>> soon as some one jump and say "hey, I'm going to use it, for real!"... or >>>> as soon as I can find a free afternoon... it is planned (and I worked a >>>> little on this), but it is not a priority right now :) >>>> 2) The Cog (I mean, the jitter) will never work on iPad/iPhone, because of >>>> the apple license (clause 3.3.2) and because of the security sandbox >>>> policy. But I think the Stack VM can do a pretty job. No, I'm not going to >>>> prepare this just for recreational purposes because I do not have the >>>> time, and the community work I do should be spent in things the community >>>> can use... and I think that Eliot (who is, in fact, the one who can do >>>> this, I'm just a builder) will think similar :) >>>> >>>> So... if we have a vm running on iOS, why there is no a legion of fellow >>>> pharoers taking over the appstore? >>>> >>>> Well... because it is not enough. >>>> There are several problems, besides the vm working or not (to be fair, the >>>> interpreter vm works on iphone since at least two years, and John is the >>>> only one who succeed on pushing some nice smalltalk apps into the >>>> appstore). >>>> The main problem is that our morphic world is ok for desktop working, and >>>> some times for desktop commercial apps (like those of pinesoft), but it >>>> just can't be used to create real apps for the iPhone/iPad market. There >>>> are some exceptions, like some eToys work and probable the developing of >>>> games like "tic-tac-toe" or so... (I mean: graphic games who can be done >>>> with morphs). But as a general rule, you can't do a real app in >>>> pharo/squeak who runs in the iPhone/iPad and can be sold in the appstore. >>>> To overcome this problem, what John does is to create the full view in >>>> Cocoa, and "plug" the model to pharo/squeak images, using pharo as a >>>> module of a cocoa application. This can be done for several apps (and the >>>> fraction calculator is an example), but fails when you want a deeper >>>> interaction (because of the cost, not just in "programming time" but also >>>> the "translation time" between the cocoa app and pharo: it is just not >>>> good enough to bring a cool user experience (at least in all my >>>> experiments it was the case) >>>> >>>> There is another possible approach, who I think is the better in the long >>>> way, and that is what I was doing with Deimos project: using a bridge to >>>> construct, in pharo, real cocoa UI objects... the advantages with this are >>>> obvious. Nevertheless, there are also some problems with this approach: >>>> 1) last year I was working on this, and apple changed a clause. The result >>>> can be expressed as if they executed: 'deimos become: shit'. Months after >>>> they review the policy, but I was concentrated on Mars (the desktop >>>> equivalent to Deimos). I will continue this, but first I want to finish >>>> Mars, and also I need to solve the problem below: >>>> 2) there are also a performance problem with the ObjectiveC plugin and >>>> callbacks. In all my experiments, I never went below 70ms executing a >>>> callback from cocoa to pharo (and that's necessary, for example, to fill >>>> tables). The minimum time needed to have a cool "scroll" effect on tables >>>> is 40ms. Of course, iPhone 4 is better than 3gs... but the problem >>>> remains. The real thing is that ObjectiveC plugin relies on a semaphore >>>> communication model, and that's not good enough. So... I think the better >>>> approach here is to port FFI-Callback plugin (latest work of Eliot) to >>>> iOS. FFI-Callback plugin uses a whole different approach, who can overcome >>>> this performance issues (and some other who's not the case mention here). >>>> >>>> So... yes... I would love to finish this soon. But right now, other issues >>>> are top in priotity, and I just can't promise a release date. (Of course, >>>> the stackvm for iphone will be compiling on hudson some time soon... >>>> before ESUG for sure) >>>> >>>> hope this can explain all the status... :) >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> Esteban >>>> >>>> El 25/05/2011, a las 11:56a.m., Igor Stasenko escribió: >>>> >>>>> On 25 May 2011 16:22, Steve Wirts <stevewi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> Sorry if this topic has been covered in a previous email, I couldn't find >>>>>> anything conclusive so I'm posting it for my own clarity. >>>>>> I am a smalltalk programmer at heart but have been working in java at a >>>>>> java >>>>>> shop for sometime. Recently there's been a very strong directive from >>>>>> management to "get everything working on an iPad". >>>>>> I see a great opportunity to introduce pharo at the moment but need a >>>>>> way to >>>>>> deploy to iPad/iPhone devices. I'm not a c programmer and am >>>>>> overwhelmed at >>>>>> the thought of trying to build a cog vm for ios devices. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there a binary package of cog vm for iPad/iPhone available somewhere? >>>>> >>>>> Ask Esteban! :) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Igor Stasenko AKA sig. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > Education 0.2 -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire > > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
