We share similar concerns.....I am not totally out of sync with you on this issue.
On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 7:41 AM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> wrote: > I see nothing wrong with Jews who want to go and prop up in the Israeli > Desert, as long as their interests don't interfere with our National > interests. > --- > > http://www.wrmea.org/2008-november/congress-watch-%7C-a-conservative-estimate-of-total-direct-u.s.-aid-to-israel-almost-$114-billion.html > > Israel is an ally. > --- > real allies don't kill your soldiers, spy on your government and extort > your politicians. > > > The only Democracy that exists in that region of the world. > --- > A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a > permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until > the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts > from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes > for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury > > Israel being an ally is not going to change Plain Ol', despite your > hatred of Jews, Israel and Zionism. > --- > My jewish friends can attest to the fact that I do not hate jews but I > will not fund their land theft, apartheid state and religious war with the > muzzies. > Nor will I overlook their extortion of our government. > > > On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 8:20:37 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >> >> I do. I see nothing wrong with Jews who want to go and prop up in the >> Israeli Desert, as long as their interests don't interfere with our >> National interests. >> >> Israel is an ally. The only Democracy that exists in that region of the >> world. Israel being an ally is not going to change Plain Ol', despite your >> hatred of Jews, Israel and Zionism. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:16 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> We agree on this issue. >> -- >> yet you support israel and zionists. >> >> On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 6:46:38 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >> >> We agree on this issue. >> >> What most Americans, (and in turn, most all American media outlets refuse >> to report upon) is that Christians are denied the use of Israeli >> infrastructure such as roads; the publicly owned treatment works, and >> water, not to mention that their lands have been confiscated without any >> remuneration. >> >> You say this only happens to Islamic Palestinians? Naaah.....At least >> fifteen percent of the Palestinians are in fact Christian. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:33 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Christian Zionists—and their most ardently supported organization, >> “Christians United for Israel”—have once again proved that no matter how >> slavishly they try and ingratiate themselves with Jewish Supremacists, >> their overlords will always ultimately object to non-Jews having any say in >> Jewish matters. >> >> The latest example has come with Jewish reaction to a new Christians >> United for Israel (CUFI) project designed to fund and promote a mass exodus >> of Jews from various countries to Israel. >> >> [image: HAARETZ-RAW-NERVE] >> >> While the Christian Zionists believe that they are thereby helping to >> fulfill some biblical prophecy, and at the same time supporting the >> Jews-only state of Israel, Jewish Supremacist reaction to the plan has been >> mixed, to say the least. >> >> According to an article in Israel’s largest newspaper, >> <http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.621615>*Haaretz >> <http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.621615>,* the >> “Christian Evangelicals’ mass aliyah push [has] touched [a] Jewish nerve” >> and has “set off a furious controversy on multiple levels.” >> >> *Haaretz* explained: >> >> *The group’s plan has set off a furious controversy on multiple levels. >> The pushback ranges from turf-oriented objections by the Jewish Agency for >> Israel, the Zionist movement’s longtime vehicle for promoting and >> implementing aliyah, to broader concerns about the ideological and even >> theological implications of the Christian group’s move.* >> >> *“There’s a certain irony here when you see Christian evangelicals >> working to move Jews out of their countries, which is very different from >> the ideology that says Jews should live everywhere,” said Jonathan Sarna, a >> professor of American history at Brandeis University.* >> >> *He noted that by moving full force into the field of aliyah, the >> Fellowship and its Christian backers are, in fact, taking the side of >> “traditional Zionists” who believe in promoting immigration of Jews to >> Israel, as opposed to the ideology of many American Jewish groups that >> believe in helping Jews live full and safe lives in their countries of >> residence. “But, in any case, we’re lucky to have money on both sides of >> this debate,” Sarna added.* >> >> The plan, announced by the “International Fellowship of Christians and >> Jews” was originally launched in a project “headed by Israel’s former top >> official dealing with the issue, and backed by millions of dollars >> collected from American evangelical Christians,” *Haaretz* continued, >> adding: >> >> *The Fellowship’s new move to set up its own aliyah operation will >> confront once again the sense of discomfort some Jews feel about the direct >> involvement of evangelicals in an operation that aims not just to help Jews >> in need, but also to fulfill the conditions many evangelicals see as a >> prerequisite for the second coming of Christ.* >> >> The ridiculousness of the situation has come about simply because >> Christian Zionists have been completely blinded to the nature of the >> ideological entity with which they have become entangled. >> >> They ignore—or dismiss—the numerous examples of open hatred towards >> Christ >> <http://davidduke.com/jesus-garbage-hate-attacks-israel-covered-jewish-supremacist-media/>, >> Christians and non-Jews in general >> <http://davidduke.com/death-to-christians-and-price-tag-attacks-in-israel/>, >> expressed by Jewish Supremacists both within and outside Israel. >> <http://davidduke.com/the-roots-of-jewish-supremacism/> >> >> Furthermore, the Christian Zionists also fail to understand that they are >> simply being manipulated by Jewish Supremacists under the guise of religion. >> >> Few of the one million supporters of CUFI know, for example that the >> executive director of that organization is not even a Christian, but actually >> an active Jewish Supremacist named David Brog. >> <http://www.cufi.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_executive_board> >> >> [image: CUFI-WEBSITE] >> >> Prior to taking up his wire-pulling role at CUFI, Brog worked as chief of >> staff to Senator Arlen Specter, and staff director of the Senate Judiciary >> Committee. In 2007, the *Forward* newspaper listed Brog in its “Forward >> 50″ most influential Jews in America. >> >> In other words, the Christian Zionists are damned if they do, and damned >> if they do not. >> >> On the one hand, they appear to believe that they are doing God’s will by >> promoting Zionism and the return of Jews to Israel. The CUFI website even >> has a section called “The Israel Pledge >> <http://www.cufi.org/site/PageServer>” which reads in part as follows: >> >> *We believe that the Jewish people have a right to live in their ancient >> land of Israel, and that the modern State of Israel is the fulfillment of >> this historic right.* >> >> [image: CUFI-ISRAEL-PLEDGE] >> >> But, at the same time, as evidenced in the *Haaretz* report, many Jews >> interpret Christians supporting other Jews in moving to Israel as having >> some sinister connotation—as if those Christians want to get rid of Jews to >> fulfil a biblical prophecy! >> >> On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 6:12:53 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >> >> No Plain Ol'; as I documented back in the middle of August, 2014, the >> definition of Christian Zionism contained within Wikipedia was limited to >> this one paragraph, (which has also been expanded) >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism >> >> Some Christian Zionists believe that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel >> is a prerequisite for the Second Coming >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Coming> of Jesus. This belief is >> primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian >> Dispensationalism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism>. The >> idea that Christians should actively support a Jewish return to the Land of >> Israel, along with the parallel idea that the Jews ought to be encouraged >> to become Christian, as a means of fulfilling a Biblical prophecy has been >> common in Protestant circles since the Reformation.[7] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-com-mag-7>[8] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-8>[9] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-9> Many >> Christian Zionists believe that the people of Israel remain part of the >> chosen >> people <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chosen_people> of God, along with >> the "ingrafted" Gentile Christians. (See[Romans 11:17-24] >> <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+11%3A17-24&version=ESV> >> and dual-covenant theology >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-covenant_theology>.) >> >> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 7:05 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> You and your pal Chaz Hagee >> --- >> have nothing in common. >> >> At least I have documented the very moment when folks like you (And that >> fat pussle gutted ignoramus Chaz Hagee) were able to redefine the term, and >> it's flat out ridiculous! >> --- >> oh, so it's more history revision because you don't acknowledge the fact >> that zionist christians believe that the return of the Jews >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew> to the Holy Land >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land>, and the establishment of the State >> of Israel <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel> in 1948, is in >> accordance with Biblical <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible> prophecy >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy>? >> too bad. >> >> >> On Friday, October 17, 2014 2:39:17 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >> >> Hey Plain Ol'! >> >> You and your pal Chaz Hagee should (and will!) sit around in the >> Tennessee Hills and chit-chat about the movement then Plain Ol'. Ya'll two >> are similar in an number of different respects. >> >> At least I have documented the very moment when folks like you (And that >> fat pussle gutted ignoramus Chaz Hagee) were able to redefine the term, and >> it's flat out ridiculous! Moreover, most Christian Americans see through >> such horse hockey, and know the real reasoning for such an >> attack........The old adage, "Keep your right hand busy, and never let them >> see what you are doing with your left hand" comes to mind..... >> >> But go ahead and think that in Christian Churches across the Nation, >> we're all sitting around planning our great move to the Israeli desert! >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:34 AM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> There really isn't such a thing as "Christian Zionism" >> --- >> your ignorance has been noted again. >> >> *Christian Zionism* is a belief among some Christians >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity> that the return of the Jews >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew> to the Holy Land >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land>, and the establishment of the State >> of Israel <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel> in 1948, is in >> accordance with Biblical <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible> prophecy >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy>. The term Christian Zionism >> began to be used in the mid-20th century, superseding *Christian >> Restorationism*.[1] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-1>[2] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-2> >> >> Hippolytus <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippolytus_of_Rome>[3] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-hippol-3> and >> Irenaeus <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus>[4] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-iren-4> >> foresaw a Jewish return from exile, despite unbelief. Traditional >> Catholic <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_Catholic> thought >> however did not consider Zionism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism> >> in any form;[5] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-Regina_Sharif_1983.2C_page_10-5> >> Christian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian> advocacy of the >> restoration of the Jews arose following the Protestant Reformation >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation>. A contemporary >> Israeli historian suggests that evangelical Christian Zionists of the 1840s >> 'passed this notion on to Jewish circles'.[6] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-shapira-6> >> >> Some Christian Zionists believe that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel >> is a prerequisite for the Second Coming >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Coming> of Jesus. This belief is >> primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian >> Dispensationalism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism>. The >> idea that Christians should actively support a Jewish return to the Land of >> Israel, along with the parallel idea that the Jews ought to be encouraged >> to become Christian, as a means of fulfilling a Biblical prophecy has been >> common in Protestant circles since the Reformation.[7] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-com-mag-7>[8] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-8>[9] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-9> Many >> Christian Zionists believe that the people of Israel remain part of the >> chosen >> people <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chosen_people> of God, along with >> the "ingrafted" Gentile Christians. (See [Romans 11:17-24] >> <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+11%3A17-24&version=ESV> >> and dual-covenant theology >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-covenant_theology>.) >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism >> >> >> On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 1:07:11 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >> >> As we have discussed the last month, this definition that you posted was >> re-defined back in August. I posted the original definition that was from >> Wiki in mid-August, and the definition was changed like a week later. >> This, after your pal, Charles Hagee started this nonsense. >> >> There really isn't such a thing as "Christian Zionism"; total bull >> hockey, and you know it Plain Ol'. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 1:21 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> you clearly don't have a grasp on what Judaism or Christianity is.you >> apparently don't understand "Zionism" because Zionist are only Jews! >> --- >> your ignorance has been noted again >> *Christian Zionism* is a belief among some Christians >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity> that the return of the Jews >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew> to the Holy Land >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land>, and the establishment of the State >> of Israel <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel> in 1948, is in >> accordance with Biblical <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible> prophecy >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy>. The term Christian Zionism >> began to be used in the mid-20th century, superseding *Christian >> Restorationism*.[1] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-1>[2] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-2> >> Some Christian Zionists believe that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel >> is a prerequisite for the Second Coming >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Coming> of Jesus. This belief is >> primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian >> Dispensationalism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism>. The >> idea that Christians should actively support a Jewish return to the Land of >> Israel, along with the parallel idea that the Jews ought to be encouraged >> to become Christian, as a means of fulfilling a Biblical prophecy has been >> common in Protestant circles since the Reformation.[7] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-com-mag-7>[8] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-8>[9] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-9> Many >> Christian Zionists believe that the people of Israel remain part of the >> chosen >> people <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chosen_people> of God, along with >> the "ingrafted" Gentile Christians. (See[Romans 11:17-24] >> <http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+11%3A17-24&version=ESV> >> and dual-covenant theology >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-covenant_theology>.) >> >> In 1818, President John Adams <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Adams> >> wrote, >> "I really wish the Jews again in Judea an independent nation", and believed >> that they would gradually become Unitarian Christians.[29] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-29> >> In 1844, George Bush >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bush_(Biblical_scholar)>, a >> professor of Hebrew at New York University >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_University> and the cousin of an >> ancestor of the Presidents Bush, published a book titled *The Valley of >> Vision; or, The Dry Bones of Israel Revived*. In it he denounced "the >> thralldom and oppression which has so long ground them (the Jews) to the >> dust," and called for "elevating" the Jews "to a rank of honorable repute >> among the nations of the earth" by allowing restoring the Jews to the land >> of Israel where the bulk would be converted to Christianity >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_the_Jews>.[30] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-30> This, >> according to Bush, would benefit not only the Jews, but all of mankind, >> forming a "link of communication" between humanity and God. "It will blaze >> in notoriety ...". "It will flash a splendid demonstration upon all >> kindreds and tongues of the truth."[7] >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism#cite_note-com-mag-7> >> >> On Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:12:57 AM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >> >> But you clearly don't have a grasp on what Judaism or Christianity is. >> You cannot even say Christianity, referencing a city in China to refer to >> such, and also just as obviously, you apparently don't understand "Zionism" >> because Zionist are only Jews! >> >> You should get a nice refreshing cup of "Wake The Hell Up" Plain Ol'! >> >> On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 7:41 AM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> What is it t >> >> ... > > -- > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. 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