Problem solved!
On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 7:19 PM, Brian Bednarek <[email protected]> wrote: > Really, use nukes and turn the sand to glass!!! > > On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> If that's the case, (which I don't believe.....*See *the whole concept >> of "Hijra" then I see no other option other than nuclear......Let's do it >> and get it over with. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 4:09 PM, plainolamerican < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Why ISIS Cannot Be Negotiated With >>> --- >>> because the damage that warmongering US neocons and zionists have done >>> to the region are too severe for them to forgive. They would rather see >>> their heads roll than to negotiate. >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 at 2:05:53 PM UTC-6, Travis wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2016/01/why-isis-cannot-be-negotiated/125020/ >>>> ? >>>> >>>> >>>> Why ISIS Cannot Be Negotiated With >>>> >>>> January 11, 2016 By H. A. Hellyer >>>> <http://www.defenseone.com/voices/h-hellyer/11814/> >>>> >>>> Jonathan Powell argues that talking to terrorists has brought peace in >>>> the past. But the Islamic State really is different. >>>> >>>> *In his recent Atlantic *piece >>>> <http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/12/negotiate-with-isis/419157/> >>>> on >>>> “What to Do About ISIS >>>> <http://www.theatlantic.com/special-report/what-to-do-about-isis/>,” >>>> Jonathan Powell, a former senior British diplomat, posits that eventually, >>>> the West would have to negotiate with the so-called Islamic State. It’s a >>>> comforting thought, in a way—the suggestion presupposes that ISIS, >>>> just like many other armed organizations throughout history, is the kind of >>>> group that can eventually be reasoned with, however distasteful its enemies >>>> may find the prospect. Noting numerous examples in which governments have >>>> talked their way to peace with terrorist organizations, Powell >>>> acknowledges, “of course people argue that ISIS is completely >>>> different from anything we have seen before. But people have said that >>>> about each new armed group since the rise of the IRA in 1919.” >>>> >>>> If Powell’s historical analogies worked, the struggle against ISIS >>>> would be a lot simpler. Unfortunately, the analysis underappreciates how >>>> direly different ISIS actually is. The armed groups that Powell >>>> describes as having accepted negotiated settlements were fundamentally >>>> nationalist organizations—even where the group or “nation” on whose behalf >>>> they fought was sometimes defined partly in terms of religious >>>> identity—with fundamentally political and pragmatic aims. ISIS is >>>> instead a radical supra-nationalist group based on a deeply perverted >>>> interpretation of Sunni Islam, and it has hugely maximalist goals. >>>> >>>> Powell’s key example is the Irish Republican Army, which was a Catholic >>>> organization insofar as it used Catholic identity for political ends, >>>> cultivating a sense of Irish Catholic nationalism to fight for the ejection >>>> of the British from Northern Ireland and for political union with their >>>> Catholic brethren to the south. But the IRA was not trying to conquer >>>> the whole of the British Isles for Catholicism, nor to hasten the return of >>>> the Christian messiah and the end of the world. Powell, who was the chief >>>> British negotiator in Northern Ireland when the Good Friday Accords helped >>>> bring an end to decades of violence in the country, notes that “when we sat >>>> down with the Republicans … we found that there were a series of legitimate >>>> subjects they wanted to discuss—from power-sharing between Catholics and >>>> Protestants to the protection of human rights.” >>>> >>>> ISIS, by contrast, is not fundamentally nationalist in this way, as >>>> Powell implies in his emphasis on the group’s appeals to Sunni identity, >>>> whether in Syria or Iraq. Rather, even while individual paths to joining >>>> ISIS may vary tremendously, and no doubt do in some cases rest on >>>> nationalist Sunni grievances, the leadership of the group has been quite >>>> clear about its genuinely held aims, which include the complete domination >>>> of Syria, Iraq, and locations far beyond. >>>> >>>> It’s not the presence of religious identity as such that makes ISIS >>>> different. As Powell points out, there have been a number of militant >>>> groups in history that have used religion for political goals and were >>>> still susceptible to negotiated peace. The Irish Republican Army was one >>>> such example, as were various Muslim groups, including the Moro Islamic >>>> Liberation Front in the Philippines, which Powell points to as proving that >>>> governments have “made peace with Islamic [sic] guerrillas before … so it >>>> is not impossible to do.” Religion, or even strong ideology, as in the case >>>> of the FMLN in El Salvador, does not make negotiation impossible. >>>> Indeed, many, if not most, of the rebel groups currently fighting Bashar >>>> al-Assad’s repugnant and brutal regime in Syria are motivated by religious >>>> precepts, and instrumentalize religion for political ends. Those groups can >>>> and should be negotiated with, and in some cases empowered against Assad >>>> and ISIS, even while their interlocutors must continuously interrogate >>>> any faults, flaws, or failings they may have. >>>> >>>> <a href=" >>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/N617/jump/defenseone.com/section_threats;pos=defenseone-instream;sz=600x300;"; >>>> title="">< img alt="" src=" >>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/N617/ad/defenseone.com/section_threats;pos=defenseone-instream;sz=600x300;tile=4;"/>< >>>> /a> >>>> >>>> <a href=" >>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/N617/jump/defenseone.com/section_threats;pos=contextual-large-rectangle-tablet;sz=700x350;"; >>>> title="">< img alt="" src=" >>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/N617/ad/defenseone.com/section_threats;pos=contextual-large-rectangle-tablet;sz=700x350;tile=5;"/>< >>>> /a> >>>> >>>> <a href=" >>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/N617/jump/defenseone.com/section_threats;pos=contextual-large-rectangle-mobile;sz=300x150;"; >>>> title="">< img alt="" src=" >>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/N617/ad/defenseone.com/section_threats;pos=contextual-large-rectangle-mobile;sz=300x150;tile=6;"/>< >>>> /a> >>>> >>>> But these other groups, from Ireland to the Philippines to Syria, >>>> fought or are fighting for limited political goals, within a defined >>>> geographic space—whether those goals were Catholic rights in Northern >>>> Ireland, Moro autonomy in the Philippines, or the reformation or end of the >>>> Assad regime in Syria. ISIS, however, is not primarily a Sunni Arab >>>> uprising aimed at protecting the civil or political rights of Sunni Muslims >>>> in Syria or Iraq. ISIS is an outgrowth of a broader uprising. But it >>>> is more than that. >>>> >>>> This is evident, for example, in the context of the Syrian Civil War, >>>> where ISIS is one of the major combatants, but is correctly not >>>> invited to international negotiations >>>> <http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/iran-saudi-arabia-us-syria-217318> >>>> aimed >>>> at resolving the conflict. On that battlefield, and in contrast to other >>>> groups there, ISIS is not just an insurgency working for a >>>> specifically Syrian political cause. Its has regional and global ambitions >>>> that go far beyond defeating Assad’s army. And unlike the Kurds, whose own >>>> regional ambitions extend only to the lands Kurds have historically >>>> occupied, ISIS specifically rejects territorial limits to its power: >>>> Its very slogan >>>> <http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/is-isis-still-remaining-and-expanding> >>>> is >>>> “remaining and expanding.” >>>> >>>> The IRA was not trying to conquer the whole of the British Isles for >>>> Catholicism, nor to hasten the return of the Christian messiah and the end >>>> of the world. >>>> >>>> An insurgency can end through negotiation and the satisfaction of >>>> certain, often predictable, political aims, such as the withdrawal of >>>> foreign military forces, or the granting of autonomy. But ISIS does >>>> not demand the withdrawal of foreign military forces—quite the contrary, it >>>> has expressed the wish to draw foreign armies into its territory >>>> <http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/>, >>>> and to export its military force beyond Syria and Iraq. It does not call >>>> for the simple granting of autonomy to its members and supporters in Syria >>>> and Iraq—it works to end the autonomy of others in both places, and far >>>> beyond, not least through ethnic cleansing and the worldwide export of >>>> wanton violence. If ISIS were willing to be satisfied by, say, a joint >>>> Sunni Arab zone in Syria and Iraq, governed under a perverted form of >>>> Islamic law, then one could talk about the possibility, if not the >>>> laudability, of negotiation. But the point of ISIS is precisely that >>>> it cannot be satisfied without forcibly changing the very contours of the >>>> current international order. >>>> >>>> Powell suggests that “even if some of the hardline leaders of ISIS … >>>> want nothing less than their full demands (including ushering in the >>>> apocalypse), other more moderate leaders will, under military pressure, be >>>> prepared to settle for more modest gains.” Negotiations should, in his >>>> view, “strengthen those moderates’ positions in ISIS’s internal >>>> discussions.” Indeed, it is possible to “peel away” ISIS members, as >>>> evidenced by the number of occasions on which ISIS recruits have >>>> defected <http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28269596> after >>>> realizing that the group isn’t all it is cracked up to be. But those >>>> “moderate” former members are essentially irrelevant to the group (unless >>>> of course they’re targeted for execution); they are not about to influence >>>> discussions within ISIS, much less take it over. These defections have >>>> in no way pushed the group toward being more palatable to international >>>> norms—in fact ISIS’s continued ability to recruit depends in part on >>>> the leadership’s very refusal to accept “nothing less than their full >>>> demands.” If ISIS remains true to its principles, that’s also the >>>> reason the world can accept nothing less than the group’s full defeat. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __._,_.___ >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> Posted by: "Beowulf" <[email protected]> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> Visit Your Group >>>> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/grendelreport/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJmazlyODZsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwMTk0ODA2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTMyMzY2NwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzE0NTI2MjIwMDI-> >>>> >>>> - New Members >>>> >>>> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/grendelreport/members/all;_ylc=X3oDMTJnbXZjcTI0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIwMTk0ODA2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTMyMzY2NwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxNDUyNjIyMDAy> >>>> 1 >>>> >>>> [image: Yahoo! Groups] >>>> <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJlajNvam5qBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIwMTk0ODA2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTMyMzY2NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTQ1MjYyMjAwMg--> >>>> • Privacy <https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html> >>>> • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use >>>> <https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/> >>>> >>>> __,_._,___ >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> -- >>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >>> >>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> -- >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >> >> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "PoliticalForum" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > brine > http://brineb.blogspot.com/ > > -- > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "PoliticalForum" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PoliticalForum" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
