>>> Hundreds of thousands killed in the last 50 years Over the 50 year many more times were killed by Russia or Chinese aggression... If one goes back 200 years one could say that of ALL major powers... And that was my point, Like democracy not a good design, except that it is better than all the other models offered..
>>> a white majority again overran the natives. So you do not deny that Puerto Rico could be Independent if it wished??? BTW the "white" majority were spanish who killed off the original natives... >>> Now THAT is a laugh. And that is emblematic of you anti-Americans... Name one other "empire" that built up industries in other countries KNOWING they would be tomorrow's competitors??? >>> The lease ran out and they did NOT renew even though asked and pressured. And unlike Russia in the Baltic, we left... That is the point isn't it.. >>> cheap labor. The the wages and quality of life were better than what they would have received back home... In the late 1800's many Eastern European were fleeing from surfdom, not unlike many Mexican today... Or the Irish in the 1840 were drive out by the British so landlord could rise sheep... >>> They collapsed themselves and many feel it was better under the USSR system >>> to this day Not if you ask the East Germans, Poles, Baltics or Ukrainians . >>> Sorry, but trghat is a US only line of bullshit. >>> Like the shah in Iran, saddam in Iraq, ridding Nicaragua of Ortega, Noriega >>> in Panama. ... Please get your facts straight... The Shah in 1952 overcame a coup de tet by his Prime Minister... He also tossed the Russians in the 40's, started land reform... You wish to base reality on Urban Myth frozen in the late 70's... Saddam of course NEVER was America's boy, in fact he was backed by the USSR mostly... As I said the US is more traditionally imperialistic in the Western Hemisphere... But then again, you are seeking to employ a 2008 standard to the 1930's -1950's timeline.. When Ortega came into power the norm was full blown Colonialism -- not unlike what China is doing in Tibet... >>> Just how long of a list of US placed tyrants do you want... right down to >>> the US backing of Mugabe, Idi Amin... etc. Links please, for the past 25 years we have not back Mugabe... Nor Idi Amin... The US closed its embassy a mere two years after Amin took power... Sorry bub, Chavez DID support the thuggish FARC... On Dec 30, 11:29 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > On 12/30/08, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > You shout typical but false leftie slogans. > > Sorry that label does not fit as your definition seems skewed. > > Now as a super power > > > America many times acts as just that, a super power... And if you > > want to see the best example of "American Imperialism" just look at > > Latin America... > > Hundreds of thousands killed in the last 50 years at the end of US or > US supplied/backed people and arms. You do not have that great of a > reputation here, although we will take your money and always reserve > the right to nationalize. > > Where America differs, is that it ALSO acts quite > > > differently from super powers of old... Since the 1890's, look at > > its history... Hawaii and Alaska were made states, > > One was taken at gun point and the citizenry (natives) not allowed to > vote until there was a white majority and the other was purchased and > a white majority again overran the natives. > > Puerto Rico > > > allowed to choose independence, statehood, or commonwealth, > > not exactly the politics involved.... man is that revisionist bullshit. > the > > > Philippines given independence and when they ask us to leave we did > > The lease ran out and they did NOT renew even though asked and pressured. > > > taking in 10's of millions refugee and immigrants and making them full > > citizens > > cheap labor. > > rebuilding Europe, Japan, S. Korea after WWII to become > > > economic rivals > > If history without the US bend (as it is taught in the rest of the > world) serves me right they were "rebuilt" to become client states and > take "dirty" industry off your hands... another policy that backfired. > > doing the same for China in the 1980's and 1990's > > Again simply using them as clients and having it backfire again... the > lack of ability to learn is a problem with you. > > > saw the Russian empire collapse and millions given freedom > > They collapsed themselves and many feel it was better under the USSR > system to this day. > > , belatedly > > > help Mexico become a democracy... Mighty deeds you ignore... > > No, mighty reversals for your expansionist capitalism........ > > > > > The US is not a perfect super power... It never was, nor will it > > be... But when compared to the empires of old - the British, then > > French, the Russian, the Chinese. the Moslem empires, and all the rest > > for thousands of years, America does more to reduce oppression and > > material need even at the cost to its own self interest... > > Now THAT is a laugh. > > > > > The UN however is more like the failed Congresses of 18th Century > > Europe (long term)... While they worked for a generation, they were > > designed to main a oppressive status quo -- a current example is > > African refusal to address the issue of Zimbabwe... Or the genocide > > in the Congo, Sudan, or East Africa... > > If one looks at South > > > America, consider Chavez, and his support for Colombian rebels tied to > > the drug trade > > Sorry, but trghat is a US only line of bullshit. There are more than > one group of rebels in Columbia and the oldest groups got their start > when the US forcibly separated Panama from Columbia to build the self > serving and US controlled Canal. > > (not unlike the Taliban and Paki tribal areas... > > The US supplied poppy seeds and refusal to erraticate ?? Bush srs' > trainee Bin Laden ?? those boys ?? > > Or > > > consider the UN refugee camps in Lebanon... When the Lebanon Army > > went in to rid Lebanon of the thugs in the camp, what was found??? > > One the UN really did not run the camp, it willingly turned control > > over to armed militias, and 2) the actual number of people in the camp > > was 20% lower than the UN had in its roles (thus 20% of all relief > > budgets for decades were really political pay offs to local thugs)... > > Replacing one oppressor with another is not freedom... > > Like the shah in Iran, saddam in Iraq, ridding Nicaragua of Ortega, > Noriega in Panama.... > > Just how long of a list of US placed tyrants do you want... right down > to the US backing of Mugabe, Idi Amin... etc. > > > > > The UN does do some things well (far better than the US could)... > > But governing or seeking to act as judge and jury on international > > conflict is not one... Again I understand the NEED of many to > > justify themselves by tossing eggs at the US... It helps them to > > ignore the obvious sins of themselves and of their friends while > > allowing for a sense of morality... > > There is NO NEED to toss eggs.... the US covered itself in them and > the stench is as sickening as a two year old Balut. > > > > > On Dec 29, 6:21 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > You are so wrong. No other country has so blatantly and unilaterally > > > resigned its legal positions within that body while screaming foul > > > (including the former USSR). > > > > The example set would indeed be the example followed. None of the > > > little "blocks" have the power to do anything without the collusion of > > > the permanant members and it is the US that leads the way in broken > > > treaties and persuit of unilateral self interest in that corps. > > > > Again I ask, when is your dead beat country going to pay a legally > > > obligated debt to Nicaragua ?? > > > > When are they going to stop playing military politics with countries > > > that do not and could threaten your shores or direct commerce ?? > > > > You have created your own problems and image then cry like babies when > > > a new version of the OAS is formed and you are invited to stay out of > > > it. There is now a defence treaty (somewhat like NATO, covering all of > > > the Americas) and the US was denied membership and told their services > > > were neither wanted or needed. > > > > Where is that on your MSM or even your self-riteous blogs from either > > > side. As time goes on you will find that the US is not becoming > > > isolationist, but isolated. > > > > Proof of this is showing up in refusals of what once were routine > > > extradition requests for civil and even some felonious crimes... they > > > are being refused off-hand with other nations quoting the US in their > > > replies... "it is not in, nor does it serve, our purposes." > > > > You are starting to gain/reap that crop of bad seed. It has only just > > > begun. > > > > You are right in one regard, the language of diplomacy is indeed at > > > times foggy and just like the manager of any disco if you want to know > > > whats happening on the dance floor.... turn off YOUR machine first. > > > Others are much better and work with far greater patience than your > > > "NOW, I want it NOW" society. > > > > On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 4:28 PM, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The non functionality of the UN is in its DNA... Any action requires > > > > no veto from 5 countries... Add to that the group think "don't blame > > > > me" blocks of Arabs, Africans, of Tyrant-run countries -- that > > > > Zimbabwe and African refusal to enforce human rights there... > > > > > Now I am sure the US does have some measure of blame... Now when > > > > Sudan who is actively engaging in genocide, is elected unanimously to > > > > the Human Rights Commission because of the voting blocks more > > > > interested in power than human rights, something is very wrong... > > > > And that is not caused by the US or lack of the American example, but > > > > by actions by small greedy states who care nothing or little about > > > > human rights... Or take the sex for food scandals in the many "peace > > > > keeping missions"... Little is done to enforce ethical conduct > > > > there... > > > > > The UN is NOT capable of governing internationally, period... It is > > > > a tool to be used for PR on controversial issues the conflict with > > > > powerful nation-states interests... Blocks of lessor states use the > > > > UN in a similar fashion... So do not moan about the American lack of > > > > leadership here... The UN has all too often used the US military as > > > > a beat cop and then demand the right to trash the beat cop... > > > > > The UN just got pissed off when Bush told them that THEY WERE > > > > IRRELEVANT when it came to issues like rouge states as Saddam was or > > > > Zimbabwe is... Which of course they are when any national interest of > > > > the Big Five are involved... That is outside a public forum to > > > > posture... > > > > > On Dec 29, 3:16 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> It is indeed non-functional when the US continues to ignore it and > > > >> leads by that example. You claim to be a super power...... i say your > > > >> governments actions are super slime. They act no better than a second > > > >> rate used car salesman and then have the gall to ask why people don't > > > >> like them...(just like the used car salesman). > > > > >> Just read an article in the Nica Times that says they figure they only > > > >> have 6000 more land mines to remove........ guess who put them there. > > > > >> Guess whos has dropped out of every treaty they have signed within the > > > >> UN when they felt it rubbed them the wrong way...... Gee, there is NO > > > >> WAY a decision by the US could be wrong, now is there ?? > > > > >> When will your dead-beat country pay the fine levied by the world > > > >> court in the 80's for illegally laying those mines and mining the > > > >> Managua Harbor ?? Want to visit the Killing fields there... I'd be > > > >> happy to take you around so you can see what your pride has done and a > > > >> memory as long as your collective manhood lasts. > > > > >> After you visit the killing fields we'll talk about directness of > > > >> language and your inability to read anything but US English and > > > >> understand translated language. > > > > >> You do not even BEGIN to have a clue. > > > > >> On 12/29/08, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > One stain of the UN is the scandal and corruption in the Oil for Food > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
