SMR Even more reason Barry S. is spending millions to stop efforts to see his "vaulted" birth records and seal his passport records.
Your contention that a child cannot lose his citizenship through his parents acts is an absolute crock. Of course they can. Obama arrived in Indonesia at about the age of five according to most accounts, although it was possible he arrived at the age of six, according to a few sources. If Lolo Soetoro adopted Obama at age five or younger, then Obama would automatically have become an Indonesian citizen according to the country's laws in the 1960's, which stipulated any child aged five or younger adopted by an Indonesian father is immediately granted Indonesian citizenship upon completion of the adoption process. Lolo Soetoro could could have adopted Obama in Hawaii, although such an adoption would not have necessarily been recognized by Indonesia. Indonesian law at the time also did not recognize dual citizenship, meaning if Obama became Indonesian, then as far as that country was concerned, his U.S. citizenship was no longer recognized by Indonesia. But U.S. law would still recognize Obama as an American citizen On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]>wrote: > SMR, > > Just because you talked to some Indonesian Bureaucrat in their Embassy, who > claims that President Obama never had an Indonesian Passport does not make > it so. That is (one of) the million dollar question(s). > With regard to President Obama and his family, "lying"; once again, there > is no evidence of that either. From World Net Daily, (which I openly admit > has reported numerous inaccuracies): > > > It was not clear whether Soetoro adopted Obama, either in Hawaii or in > Indonesia, but there is strong circumstantial evidence that he did as far as > Indonesian law was concerned. > > In Indonesia, which was under tight rule in 1967, Obama clearly took on the > last name of his stepfather in school registration documents. All Indonesian > students were required to carry government identity cards, or Karty Tanda > Pendudaks, which needed to bear the student's legal name, which should be > matched in public school registration filings. > > Following his enrollment at the private Assisi school, Obama attended > public schooling in Indonesia until he returned to Hawaii at age 10. > According to Indonesian legal experts, it was difficult to enroll > non-Indonesian citizens in public schooling. > > Obama arrived in Indonesia at about the age of five according to most > accounts, although it was possible he arrived at the age of six, according > to a few sources. If Lolo Soetoro adopted Obama at age five or younger, then > Obama would automatically have become an Indonesian citizen according to the > country's laws in the 1960's, which stipulated any child aged five or > younger adopted by an Indonesian father is immediately granted Indonesian > citizenship upon completion of the adoption process. > > Lolo Soetoro could could have adopted Obama in Hawaii, although such an > adoption would not have necessarily been recognized by Indonesia. > > Indonesian law at the time also did not recognize dual citizenship, meaning > if Obama became Indonesian, then as far as that country was concerned, his > U.S. citizenship was no longer recognized by Indonesia. But U.S. law would > still recognize Obama as an American citizen. > > ================ > > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:18 PM, smrstrauss <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Re: "No, it was not. There is no proof that he had a US passport in >> 1981. There >> is only the statement by him that he did travel then. He has refused >> to say >> on what passport he travelled.' >> >> The proof is that he never had either an Indonesian passport or a >> British passport, which I determined by calling both embassies. As for >> it being difficult to travel in Pakistan in 1981. >> >> Quote: >> >> State Department Travel Advisory Pakistan 1981 >> >> “Before traveling to Pakistan, American Citizens should be aware >> of the following updated visa requirements: 30 day visas are available >> at Pakistani airports for tourists only. As these visas are rarely >> extended beyond the 30 day time per visa. Tourists planning to stay >> longer should secure visas before coming to Pakistan. Any traveler >> coming into Pakistan overland from India must repeat must have a valid >> visa, as 30 day visas are not repeat not issued at the overland border >> crossing point at Wagha.” >> >> US State Department Travel Advisory for Pakistan in 1981, No. 81-33A >> >> So, according to the US State Department, the Pakistan government >> would give a US citizen a 30-day visa when she or he showed up at a >> Pakistan airport. There is no advice about worrying about riots or >> kidnappings. Those were the days! >> >> As the New York Times wrote in a travel article in 1981 about Lahore: >> >> >> “Lahore is fine. Lahore is a survivor, and all of its bittersweet >> history is here for the tourist to see, in the tombs and mosques, >> palaces and fortresses, museums, gardens and parks that make this one >> of the most fascinating and pleasurable of the subcontinent’s >> attractions. Pakistan - Lahore is its second-largest city - has >> restored and preserved historical buildings while developing a clean, >> modern town around them.” >> >> Re: Further, while residing in Indonesia as a child, President Obama's >> mother >> and step-father enrolled Obama in school, registering him as a citizen >> of >> Indonesia. >> >> That is true. But it must have been a lie, a lie, a lie. What they >> told the school was that he was a citizen of Indonesia, but he >> wasn't. >> >> Why not? Because Indonesia says that he was never a citizen. >> >> Is it immoral to lie? Sure. Is it illegal to lie? Maybe this would >> have been illegal in Indonesia 30 or so years ago, but the people who >> lied are both dead. Can a lie affect Obama's citizenship? No. Even if >> it were the truth, could it affect his citizenship? NO because you >> cannot lose your citizenship when you are a child due to some action >> taken by a parent. >> >> Re the military rule affecting travel and it being easier to travel on >> an Indonesian passport. It was NORMAL for Pakistan to be under a >> military government. They rarely had a civilian government throughout >> the 1970s and 1980s. I cannot see why travel on an Indonesian passport >> would have been any easier for Obama. Imagine the Pakistan officials >> checking in a six-foot "Indonesian" when normally they see only 5' 5" >> Indonesians, or less. >> >> As for Obama not having said that he had a US passport, when he said >> he went to Pakistan he assumed that we would be able to calculate that >> if he (1) never had an Indonesian passport, and (2) never had a >> British passport, we would be able to draw the conclusion that he >> traveled on a US passport. He must have had a US passport. How do you >> think he got from Hawaii to Indonesia the first time? >> >> Not only did Pakistan International Airlines fly from JFK to Karachi >> in those days, but they did so during a strike by US airlines, and the >> newspapers reported on using it as a way to get from the USA to Europe >> because it stopped in London. Not only did Pakistan International >> Airlines fly from JFK, but it had an office on Fifth Avenue! >> >> >> >> -- Mark M. Kahle, , www.filacoffee.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
