The Salt Lake Tribune Updated: 04/08/2009 08:05:07 PM MDT The Salt Lake City Police Department's decision not to participate in a new law that will allow local officers to enforce federal immigration law has infuriated the bill's legislative sponsor.
"I'm worked up about this," said Rep. Mike Noel, House sponsor of SB81, which takes effect July 1. "It's not their choice to decide which laws they enforce." But under SB81, it is their choice. Attorney General Mark Shurtleff says participation in SB81's immigration enforcement provision is optional and many local police departments are opting out. "It's clearly voluntary by any law enforcement agency," Shurtleff said. "Most law enforcement agencies are saying, 'No, we have to work with these other people regardless of their immigration status.'" The Kanab City Police Department, Noel's hometown force, could be among the non-participants. "From what I know, it's pretty expensive to send someone back to get certified," said Kanab Sgt. Billy Crosby. "Small departments will have a hard time coming up with funds for that." Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank on Wednesday said there are good reasons why his agency will not participate in cross-deputization with federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents. "If we start taking action based solely on [immigration] status, we would be making enforcement decisions based on race and ethnicity," Burbank said in interview with The Salt Lake Tribune. The chief worries about the chill that would spread through communities where victims and witnesses of crime would not come forward out of fear of deportation. In 2008, Noel sponsored SB81 along with then-Sen. Bill Hickman, R-St. George. But because it was controversial, the effective date was delayed till July 1, 2009. Efforts to block or amend the bill failed in the recent legislative session. Noel in an interview with KSL-TV Wednesday, hinted at retribution for a defiant Salt Lake City. "There are ways we can take action against the Salt Lake City Police Department," Noel told KSL. He suggested possibly reducing the amount of jail reimbursement paid by the state. Later, though, he told The Tribune that he did not control that funding. Salt Lake City Mayor Ralph Becker issued a statement Wednesday evening backing up Burbank's stance. "Salt Lake City police officers will not begin to enforce immigration law," Becker said. "Police cannot deter or solve crime if victims and witnesses are afraid to cooperate with the police because they might be deported." Becker said his office had contacted Noel and the lawmaker did not intend to seek retribution, and "Representative Noel assures me that his intent is not to mandate Salt Lake City police officers enforce federal immigration law." Hickman, who retired from the state Senate last year, shared Noel's concern about selective enforcement. "If police organizations pick and choose what laws they want to enforce, pretty soon we're involved in chaos," Hickman said. The issue is simple, Noel said, and has nothing to do with racial profiling. "When a person is arrested, the booking entity must determine that person's legal status," Noel said. If here illegally, the entity works with ICE to get the individuals deported. However, both Noel and Hickman take it a step further. "Those people who are here illegally have already broken the law," Hickman said. "We have law enforcement agents who we pay to enforce the laws. We expect them to do that." In St. George -- a fast-growing city in Utah's southwest Washington County -- police are wary of SB81's implications. "Our stance for years is that we take action based upon conduct, not the color of someone's skin," said Sgt. James Van Fleet. "We will use SB81 to further what we're already doing." Washington and Weber counties have already cross-deputized some of their sheriffs' deputies to work closely with ICE agents. "We have two deputies who can assist us and get the deportation process started" -- when someone arrested for a crime is determined to be here illegally, Van Fleet said. Sen. Jon Greiner, Ogden's police chief, said he is waiting on the memorandum of understanding that SB81 requires Shurtleff to negotiate between federal and local law enforcement agencies. That agreement will define community participation, Greiner said, adding that no involvement remains an option. Oklahoma enacted a similar law prior to SB81 and that statute is now embroiled in litigation; Utah's could be next, leading to a delay in implementation. "I've had initial contact with a number of organizations that have said they will be filing a lawsuit," Shurtleff said. [email protected] Robert Gehrke contributed to this article SB81's local enforcement provision: "The attorney general shall negotiate the terms of a Memorandum of Understanding between the state and [the federal government] ... for the enforcement of federal immigration and customs laws within the state by state and local law enforcement personnel, to include investigations, apprehensions, detentions and removals of persons who are illegally present in the United States. On Jul 13, 10:19 am, Zebnick <[email protected]> wrote: > Look Holly, this stuff is no big secret. Democrat cities like NYC or > San Francisco actually prevent government agencies form reporting > illegal aliens to authorities. The rationale for this is that they > won't report crime to the police or take their children to clinics, > etc., for fear of being deported. Lefties don't even refer to them as > ILLEGAL ALIENS, they call them "immigrants." Personally, the "crisis" > that guys coming up from Mexico to cut lawns and do dishes present > ranks just below the "crisis" that we're just about to burn up the > planet because of the pollution from our expelled breath. > > On Jul 12, 12:06 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Zeb, > > > The ACLU is stopping the INS from enforcing the laws against hiring > > illegal immigrants? How, when, where? Show me the proof. I don't give > > the slightest fuck WHO is stopping the enforcement of the laws, my > > suggestion was to ignore such opposition and enforce the damn law. > > Don't give a fuck who is calling enforcing the law "racist". You > > telling me the INS is saying "oh, we can't enforce the law someone > > might think it's racist"? So, if I'm stopped for speeding and a black > > or latino cop pulls me over all I have to do is call his actions > > racist and I won't get a ticket? BULLSHIT. > > Give me a link showing the court order forbidding the INS, a federal > > agency, to enforce laws regarding the hiring of illegal workers. > > > On Jul 11, 10:53 pm, Zebnick <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Your "criticism" of corporations is stating the obvious. SO FUCKING > > > WHAT?? Who is stopping the enforcement of immigration laws? Who calls > > > them racist? ASSHOLES on the left, thats who. > > > > On Jul 11, 11:46 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Zeb, > > > > > And you lack the cajones to even breath a suggestion of what even > > > > might be construed as criticism of American corporations concerning > > > > the issue of illegal immigration. Hasn't this thread PROVEN that? > > > > > On Jul 11, 10:41 pm, Zebnick <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > You wouldn't have the balls to try to fight such as the ACLU over > > > > > enforcing immigration laws. > > > > > > On Jul 11, 10:18 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > KIT, > > > > > > > Oh please. Both pissed in their pants and stated talking about > > > > > > "right > > > > > > and wrong" instead of obeying immigration laws. bruce started to cry > > > > > > about "people should be free to work and live where they like". > > > > > > Apparently he considers crossing the border illegally without proper > > > > > > papers to be a mere technicality. All the sudden these illegal > > > > > > immigrants became "visitors". > > > > > > > And just when did all this loving concern for the illegal immigrants > > > > > > begin? About one minute after I suggested that a good way to stop > > > > > > illegal immigration would be to dry up the jobs which they are > > > > > > coming > > > > > > here to obtain by applying significant punishment to the companies > > > > > > that illegally hire them. > > > > > > > Let me guess which are the laws those two want lessened? Could it > > > > > > possibly be in the area of punishing corporations for breaking > > > > > > immigration laws to the extent of actually improving the situation? > > > > > > > Tell me, just where in my post did I suggest ANYTHING other than > > > > > > deported captured illegal immigrants? Tell be where I argued with > > > > > > ANY > > > > > > of the posted stats concerning what you illegal immigrants cosy our > > > > > > society and tax-payers? WHERE? > > > > > > > MY entire initial post consisted of only my suggestion on how to > > > > > > best > > > > > > and most quickly reduce and limit the illegal immigration problem. > > > > > > Then the lads all started screaming and crying. > > > > > > > Rather nice attempt at diversion on your part. Now, what do you > > > > > > think > > > > > > of the proposal I laid out in the initial post. I mean as you are > > > > > > such > > > > > > an advocate of reading carefully and with thoroughness. > > > > > > > Ciao > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 8:00 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Holly, Holly, Holly....... > > > > > > > > As I have pointed out to you on numerous occasions, you should > > > > > > > always read > > > > > > > the posts by thinking, well read, conservative Americans several > > > > > > > times > > > > > > > before responding. > > > > > > > > Zeb and Bruce both are not advocating that laws be broken, or > > > > > > > that illegal > > > > > > > immigrants should not be prosecuted. Just the opposite is true. > > > > > > > Bruce, > > > > > > > and I imagine Zeb also concurs, would like to see much less laws > > > > > > > in this > > > > > > > Nation, but that is getting off of the point of illegal > > > > > > > immigration, and a > > > > > > > federal government who asked all Americans to forego their civil > > > > > > > liberties > > > > > > > in the name of National Security, when at the same time, our > > > > > > > federal > > > > > > > government refused to secure our national borders, allowing for > > > > > > > anyone, to > > > > > > > include folks who frequently sport dirty laundry on their heads, > > > > > > > to enter > > > > > > > our Nation, without any accountability. > > > > > > > > Further, Bruce, like most thinking Americans and all > > > > > > > conservatives, finds it > > > > > > > repulsive that we, as taxpayers, are footing the bill for these > > > > > > > illegal > > > > > > > aliens, predominately from Mexico, to include their health care, > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > schooling of their children, their food subsidies, and their > > > > > > > criminal > > > > > > > mischief and what that causes to our society both fiscally and > > > > > > > socially. > > > > > > > > These are not racist sentiments, nor is there any of the > > > > > > > conservatives that > > > > > > > I know of, who are Anti-Mexican. No one wants to curtail any > > > > > > > individual or > > > > > > > their family from wanting to better themselves, their families, > > > > > > > or to > > > > > > > prohibit anyone from prospering. Of course, it is hard for me to > > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > why these folks are not in their own Nation demanding that a > > > > > > > corrupt > > > > > > > government start addressing the poverty; the lack of services; > > > > > > > the neglect > > > > > > > of an infrastructure, especially with a land that is ripe with > > > > > > > natural > > > > > > > resources and a vibrant labor pool, but as most socialists and > > > > > > > liberals believe, these folks think that America owes them > > > > > > > something, and I, > > > > > > > like many thinking, conservative Americans resent that. I tend > > > > > > > to believe > > > > > > > that Bruce and Zeb do also. > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Hollywood > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > bruce, > > > > > > > > > First thing I learned about the law was that in many cases it > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > nothing whatsoever to do with justice. You sound like a little > > > > > > > > kid > > > > > > > > crying to mama that "it's just not FAIR!!!". Check into Hotel > > > > > > > > Reality > > > > > > > > lad. > > > > > > > > I hate to be the one to have to break this to you, it saddens me > > > > > > > > somewhat to burst your little bubble. Oh yeah, and Santa Claus > > > > > > > > is also > > > > > > > > not real. > > > > > > > > > Tell me lad, who's version of "justice" would you like to > > > > > > > > measure > > > > > > > > everything against? > > > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 4:10 pm, bruce majors <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes and as we all know law and justice are identical aren't > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Hollywood > > > > > > > > > <[email protected] > > > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > bruce, > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, they are called LAWS. Duuuuuuh..... > > > > > > > > > > Ya' think the FBI would give the slightest fuck if I were > > > > > > > > > > to decide I > > > > > > > > > > have the RIGHT to rob a bank? OR the INS if I think it's > > > > > > > > > > RIGHT to > > > > > > > > > > ignore our immigration laws? Feel free to do what you think > > > > > > > > > > is right > > > > > > > > > > lad, just be prepared to take the consequences if the law > > > > > > > > > > in this > > > > > > > > > > country runs counter to what you think is right. > > > > > > > > > > Guess what? Some radical Islamics think it is right and > > > > > > > > > > moral to > > > > > > > > > > strangle their daughter for wearing a mini-skirt. Here in > > > > > > > > > > St. Louis we > > > > > > > > > > called that murder and arrest your sorry ass. > > > > > > > > > > My, my, bruce defending Islamic nut-jobs because they are > > > > > > > > > > only doing > > > > > > > > > > what they think is right and moral. > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 9:49 am, bruce majors <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > It's a more abstract discussion than that Holly > > > > > > > > > > > You believe that what governments say is important and > > > > > > > > > > > has something > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > > with what is wrong or right > > > > > > > > > > > > You believe they are the source of rights > > > > > > > > > > > > You are wrong > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Hollywood < > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > bruce, > > > > > > > > > > > > > When I visit Mexico I do it legally. It's not called a > > > > > > > > > > > > "visit" when > > > > > > > > > > > > you cross a border illegally. My, my look at all the > > > > > > > > > > > > conservatives > > > > > > > > > > > > defending illegal aliens and encouraging the violation > > > > > > > > > > > > of American > > > > > > > > law > > > > > > > > > > > > and sovereignty. What has suddenly happened to you lads? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 11, 9:33 am, bruce majors > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > States don't have a right to tell non-violent people > > > > > > > > > > > > > where they > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > travel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone invites them to visit they should be able > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Hollywood < > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bruce, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, just so long as they do it LEGALLY. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you really do NOT want to > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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