I am indeed subject to the laws of the us and germany and cr and do indeed file taxes in all three. I also vote in all three. there are many levels of diplomats and many (even now) exclusions as to what and how diplomats may or may not be charged and held to the level of law. It is NOT as cut and dry as you wish it were.
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Zebnick <[email protected]> wrote: > > LOL! Cherry picking? Have you any intelligent refute other than "well, > it used to be different?" You say things were different in US law in > the fifties. What was different from current law? Did the law NOT > require people born here to be subject to the jurisdiction of US law? > Was there no such thing as diplomatic immunity back then? > > On Aug 4, 11:36 am, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > Like I said "cherry picking" > > > > from the post: reflects > > > > > the laws passed by Congress as of *Jan. 8, 2008*, > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:30 AM, Zebnick <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > "Current as of" means that it was valid on that date, not effective as > > > of that date. You're grasping at straws. > > > > > On Aug 4, 11:21 am, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Title 8 of the US Code as currently published by the US Government > > > reflects > > > > the laws passed by Congress as of *Jan. 8, 2008*, and *it is this > version > > > > that is published here*. > > > > seems to me it is a little too late to affect me. It is from the link > on > > > > your page. found here at "how current....." > > > > > > § 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth How Current > is > > > > This?< > > >http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/HowCurrent.php/?tn=8&fragid=T08F002. > .. > > > > May 2 07:41:55 2009> > > > > > > Liked I said.... you are so correct and all knowing I am going to > > > surrender > > > > my and my daughters passports passport and tell the Embassy/State > Dept. > > > that > > > > they are interpreting the law as it stood at the time of my birth > > > > incorrectly. > > > > > > This law is ammended and appended evey couple of years, I do not have > a > > > > 1950s' law library here. I do know that I have held a legal US > passport > > > > since I was two or three years old. If you can't live with it.... > > > complain; > > > > I'm sure that retroactively changing a law is rather > > > commonplace.....NOT!!! > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Zebnick <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > TITLE 8 >CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401 > > > > > > > § 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth > > > > > > > The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States > at > > > > > birth: > > > > > > > (a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the > > > > > jurisdiction thereof; > > > > > > > The above is not a source, Mark. It is US Law. I have identified it > > > > > clearly enough that you can easily find it for yourself. The part > > > > > where is says "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is what > > > > > excludes the children of diplomats from citizenship by birth on US > > > > > soil. You said your father was the German Consul and that you were > > > > > born in a consular office. Consuls have diplomatic immunity and are > > > > > not subject to the US law, nor are their children. > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 10:31 am, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Like I said Zeb. You and your "sources" know best. I will indeed > > > > > surrender > > > > > > my US passport at once. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:04 AM, Zebnick <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Since you think Canadian lawyers are morons and don't know > > > immigration > > > > > > > law, try this: > > > > >http://immigration.findlaw.com/immigration/immigration-citizenship-na. > > > > > .. > > > > > > > > > Birth in the United States > > > > > > > > > A child born on American soil automatically gets U.S. > citizenship, > > > > > > > unless the child is born to a foreign government official who > is in > > > > > > > the United States as a recognized diplomat. Children born in > > > certain > > > > > > > U.S. territories -- Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and Guam > -- > > > may > > > > > > > also acquire U.S. citizenship. For details, see Title 8 of the > U.S. > > > > > > > Code, available atwww.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 10:36 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, laws do change, live with it, I do. The law in effect at > the > > > > > time of > > > > > > > > birth is the law that decides your status as a citizen. You > are > > > > > correct > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > one respect... I was born in the last century. Further, you > are > > > the > > > > > one > > > > > > > > saying I do not qualify.... the US government disagrees with > you. > > > I > > > > > > > prefer > > > > > > > > to believe my passport is genuine, mere possession of a US > > > passport > > > > > > > proves > > > > > > > > you wrong. What you believe but can not prove is irrelevant. > > > > > > > > Dual Nationality > > > > > > > > > > The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a > citizen > > > of > > > > > two > > > > > > > > countries at the same time. Each country has its own > citizenship > > > laws > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by > automatic > > > > > > > operation > > > > > > > > of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child > > > born in > > > > > a > > > > > > > > foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. > > > citizen > > > > > and a > > > > > > > > citizen of the country of birth. > > > > > > > > > > A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, > or a > > > > > person > > > > > > > > naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of > the > > > > > country > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a > > > person > > > > > to > > > > > > > > choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is > > > > > automatically > > > > > > > > granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. > > > citizenship. > > > > > > > However, > > > > > > > > a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for > it > > > may > > > > > lose > > > > > > > U.S. > > > > > > > > citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law > requires > > > that > > > > > the > > > > > > > > person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by > > > free > > > > > > > choice, > > > > > > > > and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship. > > > > > > > > > > Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The > > > U.S. > > > > > > > > Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does > not > > > > > encourage > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. > > > Claims of > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with > U.S. > > > law, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist > > > citizens > > > > > > > > abroad. The country where a dual national is located > generally > > > has a > > > > > > > > stronger claim to that person's allegiance. > > > > > > > > > > However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United > States > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > > > > foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both > > > > > countries. > > > > > > > > Either country has the right to enforce its laws, > particularly if > > > the > > > > > > > person > > > > > > > > later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual > nationals, > > > > > must > > > > > > > use a > > > > > > > > U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual > > > nationals > > > > > may > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > be required by the foreign country to use its passport to > enter > > > and > > > > > leave > > > > > > > > that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger > U.S. > > > > > > > > citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or > > > otherwise > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > citizenship. > > > > > > > > Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained > from > > > the > > > > > > > foreign > > > > > > > > country's embassy and consulates in the United States. > Americans > > > can > > > > > > > > renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. > embassies > > > and > > > > > > > > consulates abroad. > > > > > > > > > > I keep quoting US sources and you throw a canadian/british > law > > > firms > > > > > > > > interpretation at me. > > > > > > > > > >http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Zebnick <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Look pal, this is the law. And just coincidentally, IT > MAKES > > > SENSE. > > > > > > > > > You wanna argue that it was different sometime in the last > > > century? > > > > > > > > > PROVE IT! Show me where the law used to be that the > children of > > > > > > > > > foreign diplomats (consuls) were automatically afforded US > > > > > citizenship > > > > > > > > > and then show me when it changed. Otherwise your house of > cards > > > is > > > > > > > > > still on the ground. > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 9:34 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > and your "General Rule was adopted when ?? and it applies > to > > > my > > > > > US > > > > > > > > > > citizenship ?? then I guess the US passport I just > renewed in > > > the > > > > > > > > > emabassy > > > > > > > > > > in San Jose is no good.... > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Zebnick < > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > YOU SAID: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"I was born in a german consulare office in trhe US of > > > German > > > > > > > parents > > > > > > > > > (my > > > > > > > > > > > father was the consul)" > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read it and weep: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exceptions to the General Rule: > > > > > > > > > > > Foreign Sovereigns, Foreign Diplomats and their > Families > > > > > > > > > > > The general rule does not apply to foreign sovereigns, > > > > > accredited > > > > > > > > > > > foreign diplomats or their families since under > > > International > > > > > law > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > > are not subject to the law of the foreign country which > has > > > > > > > received > > > > > > > > > > > them. Accordingly, children born in the United States > to > > > such > > > > > > > > > > > individuals are not entitled to United States > citizenship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > LOL! Its becoming apparent you're totally full of shit, > > > ain't > > > > > it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 8:39 pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You keep quoting exclusions that have been placed > since > > > the > > > > > 80's. > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > born > > > > > > > > > > > > long before that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Zebnick < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. With very few exceptions, most of which have > to do > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > children > > > > > > > > > > > born > > > > > > > > > > > > > to foreign government officials on assignment to > the > > > U.S > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be YOU. Or were > > > > ... > > > > read more » > > > -- Mark M. Kahle, , www.filacoffee.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
