HJ,

Keep in mind that SCM is just a framework that generalizes the semi-empirical 
Bekker theory to arbitrary terrain topography and impactor geometry.  As such, 
in terms of modeling a particular type of soil, you will need to look for 
appropriate parameter values which typically come from bevameter experiments.  
Look for example in the book by Wong, or any other source for such parameters.

The FEA deformable soil model in Chrono::Vehicle is not really maintained (it 
builds and should work, but we have not used it for any relevant simulations).  
That modeling approach is computationally quite expensive, relies on parameters 
that are difficult to come by, and (unlike granular dynamics or the CRM 
approach that Dan mentioned) cannot capture larger soil deformations.  If you 
are interested in an FEA-based approach, look also at work by Yamashita and 
Sugyiama on hybrid FEA-DEM formulation (by the way, their terramechanics code 
can be coupled to Chrono vehicle simulations through the Chrono::Vehicle 
co-simulation framework).

But I second Dan’s suggestion to look at the deformable soil formulations 
available in Chrono, in the order SCM, CRM, DEM.

--Radu

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf 
Of hj
Sent: Thursday, 2 March 2023 16:44
To: ProjectChrono <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [chrono] Wheeled vehicle simulation on deformable terrain?

Hello Dan

Thank you very much for your comprehensive reply and sending the papers. The 
papes are very interesting works.    I will definitely go with the order that 
you mentioned for using different methods. I just have a couple of follow up 
question.

What do you mean by " we don't have FEA model for terrain" ? what is the main 
limitation of FEADeformableterrain  class ? And is there any paper you guys 
published for the mud modeling using SCM that I can have a look?

Thank you and Regards
On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 8:24:15 PM UTC-4 Dan Negrut wrote:
Hi hj,
You want to use SCM as much as possible. We used it in the past for mud and 
almost rigid terrain (small sinkage). It’s pretty much an empirical approach. 
In general, SCM can run at Real Time Factor close to 1 (that is, real time).
We do not have a FEA model – the Chrono continuum terrain model is solved with 
SPH and it’s called Continuous Representation Model (CRM). CRM is your next 
fastest choice, RTF is anywhere from 50 to 200.
If you go to DEM, the RTF probably is going to reach into 1000.
So, if you want to generate training data and need to get tons of data, try, in 
this order, SCM, CRM, DEM.
See  
here<https://asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/computationalnonlinear/article-abstract/doi/10.1115/1.4056851/1156640/Real-time-Simulation-of-Ground-Vehicles-On?redirectedFrom=fulltext>,
 and here<https://www.authorea.com/doi/full/10.22541/au.167355891.12085319/v1>, 
for recent papers on this topic. For DEM, we’ll have a paper out soon, but for 
an older version, see here<https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9717/9/10/1813>.
Good luck.
Dan
---------------------------------------------
Bernard A. and Frances M. Weideman Professor
NVIDIA CUDA Fellow
Department of Mechanical Engineering
Department of Computer Science
University of Wisconsin - Madison
4150ME, 1513 University Avenue
Madison, WI 53706-1572
608 772 0914<tel:(608)%20772-0914>
http://sbel.wisc.edu/
http://projectchrono.org/
---------------------------------------------

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of hj
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2023 2:52 PM
To: ProjectChrono <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [chrono] Wheeled vehicle simulation on deformable terrain?

Hi

I had a question about using deformable terrain in Chrono. Maybe it's not 
chrono-specific but I aappreciate if I can have a feedback. I have a few 
research goals that I'd like to use Chrono for. Right now my work is to get 
data from tire (for now just tire and then the vehicle ) on deformable terrain 
to train RL or ML models. I started with SCM and rigid tire and my goal is to 
have data from different "types" of terrain such as soft and hard soil, snow, 
gravel, mud , etc. My question is for what type of terrain you think SCM would 
work the best to have the model close to real life? And for what type of 
terrain, I "have to" use DEM and granular terrain modeling methods?   And for 
what type of terrian you think it's better to use FEA terrain?  I appologize if 
my question is too long but I appreciate any feedback!

Regards

On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 3:12:45 PM UTC-4 Radu Serban wrote:
Yes, of course you can use wheeled vehicles on deformable terrain.
There are demos in the Chrono distributions that illustrate that. Which 
particular deformable terrain formulation are you interested in?
Finally, would you please let us know where in the tutorials is mentioned that 
only tracked vehicles work with deformable terrain?!

--Radu

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of hj
Sent: Thursday, 26 January 2023 19:43
To: ProjectChrono <[email protected]>
Subject: [chrono] Wheeled vehicle simulation on deformable terrain?

Hello

I've been reading the chrono tutorial about deformable surface modeling. I was 
wondering if there is any way I can use Chrono for simulation of wheeled 
vehicle on a deformable terrain?  It is mentioned in the tutorials that 
deformable terrain models only work with tracked vehicles!


I appreciate any feedback !

Thank you
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ProjectChrono" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/projectchrono/67c948f8-4d62-43cb-8b2d-bf4e59d0347fn%40googlegroups.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/projectchrono/67c948f8-4d62-43cb-8b2d-bf4e59d0347fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ProjectChrono" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/projectchrono/48ed9365-641b-4a3a-918d-7e54721ae2can%40googlegroups.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/projectchrono/48ed9365-641b-4a3a-918d-7e54721ae2can%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ProjectChrono" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/projectchrono/00d9de13-79a5-4001-9943-e14c234f28d0n%40googlegroups.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/projectchrono/00d9de13-79a5-4001-9943-e14c234f28d0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"ProjectChrono" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/projectchrono/PH0PR06MB8237863947A23CC2D15E1549A7B39%40PH0PR06MB8237.namprd06.prod.outlook.com.

Reply via email to