On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:14 PM Sage Gerard <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yes. I assumed was that (b) was not true, since I thought volunteers > were hard to come by for most community tasks. "Ask only" makes more > sense if someone can be found and made available at any time. > > All: I normally wait for a go-ahead from a quorum before applying > changes like this. If I don't need to wait, then please tell me.
I think if you're good with this approach, you should move forward with it. Sam > Sam: You mentioned someone got a 404 from an invite link. 404s sometimes > disguise permission issues, so I suspect that switching to "ask to join" > will make that problem go away too. > > On 1/12/22 1:00 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > > > Here's my suggestion: we switch to "ask to join" on Google Groups. I > > think that will notify all the moderators, and thus (a) more people > > can potentially respond (eg, I think I currently get those emails too) > > and (b) if someone can no longer take on this responsibility, it's > > easy to have someone else step up. The alternative where we specify a > > specific email requires potentially changing that email address when > > the responsibility changes. > > > > Does that seem like a reasonable approach? > > > > Sam > > > > On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:30 PM Sage Gerard <[email protected]> wrote: > >> No no, that was helpful, thank you. We do need to figure this part out. > >> > >> On 1/11/22 2:22 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > >> > >> Sorry, I probably shouldn't have jumped in here. I'm happy with whatever > >> you folks decide is best! > >> > >> Robby > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM Sage Gerard <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> Makes sense. > >>> > >>> I'll repeat one key difference in the context of Google Groups > >>> > >>> Ask to join > >>> > >>> Racket volunteer must be available for vetting requests, on receiving > >>> them. Member starts process in Google Groups > >>> > >>> Invite only > >>> > >>> Racket volunteer may vet first, but must initiate contact with member. As > >>> Sam said, strangers can't start that process. > >>> > >>> If you publish an email to request invites, then the process is going to > >>> be "ask to join" no matter what, so the mailing list configuration is > >>> relevant for a different reason. Do we want members to start the process > >>> in Google Groups, or by sending an email to a fixed address? > >>> > >>> On 1/11/22 1:51 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > >>> > >>> Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website, right? We > >>> could post an email address or two there where asks should go? > >>> > >>> Robby > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>>> One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join the > >>>> list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone who > >>>> is already a member and ask them to join. > >>>> > >>>> It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join. > >>>> It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but > >>>> this seems like it might be a good intermediate position. > >>>> > >>>> Sam > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this > >>>>> writing, the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter > >>>>> between the non-members and members. The public can no longer let > >>>>> themselves in. > >>>>> > >>>>> Not totally out of the woods yet. > >>>>> > >>>>> Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page -> > >>>>> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me. > >>>>> This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting a > >>>>> bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough > >>>>> to make this unlikely. > >>>>> > >>>>> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request to > >>>>> delete my emails. :) > >>>>> > >>>>> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very > >>>>> recently. No clue why) > >>>>> > >>>>> — Matthias > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> +1! Thank you. > >>>>> > >>>>> Robby > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt <[email protected]> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down a way > >>>>>> to improve the situation! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +0000, Sage Gerard wrote: > >>>>>>> Core team, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done so, > >>>>>>> even > >>>>>>> just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. This is > >>>>>>> why > >>>>>>> I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the spammer. > >>>>>>> After researching the problem further, I need your urgent attention. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google group > >>>>>>> posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a > >>>>>>> comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email > >>>>>>> addresses > >>>>>>> are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out membership. > >>>>>>> After > >>>>>>> checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those lists. I > >>>>>>> hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and > >>>>>>> cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, and > >>>>>>> another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to stop > >>>>>>> automatically handing out group membership with our current settings. > >>>>>>> We > >>>>>>> can have ________ issue list memberships. I need you all to fill in > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings > >>>>>>> accordingly. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with > >>>>>>> respect > >>>>>>> for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own mailing > >>>>>>> list > >>>>>>> privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. I will > >>>>>>> leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent > >>>>>>> interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to limit > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> role my email address plays for the spammer. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I am > >>>>>>> not > >>>>>>> commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks. > >>>>>>> Between > >>>>>>> the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, I'm not > >>>>>>> sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds weight, > >>>>>>> I'd > >>>>>>> advise the answer be "members" so that any available moderators can > >>>>>>> focus on rule breakers while the community grows at a self-directed > >>>>>>> speed. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Let me know, and thank you. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>>> Groups > >>>>>>> "Racket Users" group. > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >>>>>>> send an > >>>>>>> email to [email protected]. > >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/5fa6a8bb-88e4-37c6-f0b9-2ed372bc > >>>>>>> e8fe%40sagegerard.com. > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>>> Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. > >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/20211218124300.343%40sirmail.smtps.cs.utah.edu. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>> Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>>> an email to [email protected]. > >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOMCXH4Zio1%2B96Nj_Zgj2vByetG-%3D8i93%3DLYjTpaBrw8DA%40mail.gmail.com. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>> Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>>> an email to [email protected]. > >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/649B3011-618B-466E-AE20-B4C13629CA71%40felleisen.org. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>> Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>>> an email to [email protected]. > >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/ef18d8d4-0305-1cf9-f657-434c19843dc2%40sagegerard.com. > >>>> -- > >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>> Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >>>> an email to [email protected]. > >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAK%3DHD%2BbpujcR6Zsc3n-PY9L-vQUZGJV3uGoNNidu8tE27s_oJQ%40mail.gmail.com. > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >>> "Racket Users" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >>> email to [email protected]. > >>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOM8V1kS79gXomX%3DPqMVKLeXM491M60xq7C6dHz%2B0o6bTw%40mail.gmail.com. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >>> "Racket Users" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >>> email to [email protected]. > >>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/d264f944-750a-5329-96f2-1fd2fac7ba31%40sagegerard.com. > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "Racket Users" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >> email to [email protected]. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOO%2BEW5Y_WOLGqX1_%3DJKxGTJhvi5aaRANn%2BfbY0M3hQ92w%40mail.gmail.com. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "Racket Users" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >> email to [email protected]. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/b7bcf283-77d6-9df5-e2d6-c0729e8a93a2%40sagegerard.com. > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Racket Users" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected]. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAK%3DHD%2BabPN9hbbCjxX5rcqPD6qTP17fZ8aFxYnhTggbvgSS6XA%40mail.gmail.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Racket Users" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this 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