I forgot to add -- of course -- that in my own experience, such as it is,
the length of the stays should not affect the bikes "sprightliness." My Riv
road customs, including the gofast, have stays that measure 45 cm to the
end of the horizontal dropouts, and these two define for me "sprightly
feeling bikes. I've also read that Jobst Brandt, who certainly would not
tolerate a sluggish bike, used to ask the builder *not* to cut the
chainstays -- to use the full length of the tubing.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Waynee: IMO, your question is perfectly reasonable, and I for one will be
> very interested to hear responses. For me, a slow, heavy bike would be an
> instant non-seller.
>
> One aside that might be pertinent: as Jan Heine has shown over the last
> few years in his publication, Bicycle Quarterly, the most influential
> factor in bicycle speed, after aerodynamics, is tire quality. A tire with
> thick, heavy sidewalls will rob a surprising amount of the pedaler's
> energy, while a very supple tire, even if a very wide one, will roll with
> far less friction. The difference is in the casings: a supple casing drains
> far less of your energy than a thick, stiff one which simply requires more
> energy to flex it.
>
> I disagree with Jan on a number of points, but my own experience, such as
> it is, very definitely bears out this judgment.
>
> Back to the Clem: I personally would be interested to learn how it rides
> on rough dirt roads, particularly on sandy soil.
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Wayne Naha <w.r.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> [Snip]
>> I really want to like this bike, but a slow, heavy bike would be indeed a
>> tough bike to love.  The blug says Clem can do touring, trails, and towny
>> stuff.  But plodding along the trails does not sound fun.
>> I ask the questions with all respect.  I am not trying to be snarky, but
>> am trying to get solid information on which to base a purchasing decision.
>> It would be so much simpler just to go to the Riv store and hop on a Clem,
>> but I am across the continent from them.  I spoke with Keven at length just
>> recently, but input from the group seems relevant and important, too.
>>
>
>


-- 
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*************************************
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the rim of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Kinei hos eromenon. It moves as the being-loved. *Aristotle

*The Love that moves the Sun and all the other stars. *Dante

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